The Nazarene Egroups Forum
Situation at the forum:
James Trimm, owner of the Nazarene forum, participated and watched other people bad mouth and insult [Mrs. H.] , at the nazarene list, calling her *** etc, for stating that James Trimm was Rabbi Yosef. All he had to do, was be honest and admit that he posted as Rabbi Yosef. Instead, he not only allowed this action to continue, but when asked directly if he was Rabbi Yosef, he sidestepped the direct question and said that he was setting the record straight, that he did not and had not advocated the Book of Mormon. This led people to believe that he was denying that he was Rabbi Yosef and some continued their attack on [Mrs. H.] . Please do not even take my word for it, review all the evidence that follows. Mishley says, " Righteous appears the first in his own cause, until his neighbor comes and searches him." I am searching and finding. And I am making the evidence available to the assembly of believers, to make a judgement in this matter.
One of [Mrs. H's] many posts
Post 39778 egroups/messages/nazarene - from [Mrs. H.]
Just a sample of some of the abuse she was subjected to
by other posters, with James Trimm aware of it.
Post 39809 egroups/messages/nazarene - Adam J. Bernay
Post 39810 egroups/messages/nazarene - Adam J. Bernay
One of James Trimm's posts denying advocating the Book Of
Post 39777 egroups/messages/nazarene – James Trimm
These posts are a basic sampling of the issue and what was going on at the forum. I was not a member then. I did not even know what had been happening all those months, or even who [Mrs. H.] was. On 6-30 thru 7-2, I received some forwards, from a friend, about some of this matter. I did not know which list they were from, at the time. In reading those forwards, something struck me, it was the plea of a woman, asking for an investigation into a matter and kept making a stand on an issue – that James Trimm was also Rabbi Yosef. I had heard that rumor years ago, but involving Qabbalah, not the BoM. So I decided to see if there was any truth to the statement and started looking. I didn’t have to look hard or long, when all the evidence fell into my lap.
I subscribed to the forum and sent my post on 7-2-2000. I posted it through my son’s computer and his e-mail address, using my middle name, Lynette. I did that, because I was told last year, that James Trimm keeps records of all e-mails, tapes phone calls and keeps a database on everyone he comes in contact with. If this was so, then my e-mail address might be flagged, after we butted heads about his authority to ban people from conferences and call them anti-semites, last year. This debate took place at EliYah’s forum. I will have to get to that later, since James is resurrecting the charge of anti-semitic, to discredit me.
I am sorry to have to post entire posts or e-mails, but it is either necessary for dates, addresses, routing numbers, etc., or in a few cases the text and quoting of that text is the issue. Also, so that no one can claim that I am only picking and choosing certain portions. I have nothing to hide and therefore don’t have a problem with revealing the entire e-mail or post, but I know that it makes it longer and in some cases repetitive.
Before I show my original post, I need to show that
I subscribed to the nazarene list and that I was a member, since James
claims in his revised letter, trying to discredit me, that my post never went
through since my e-mail address was banned because of the situation last year,
at EliYah’s Forum. The first page is of my egroups folder showing that I was
a member of three groups, one of which is nazarene, under my sons address of
unibrow @ flash. net. The second shows, on the nazarene page, that I was a member
of the community. Please pay attention to dates and details, because they are
necessary to prove that James lied about my posting, in his revised letter.
My Groups Page
Original Post 7-2-2000 to Nazarene list - evidence that James Trimm was Rabbi Yosef and Yosef Liahona from firstname.lastname@example.org
Just after I posted this, I received information that the Rabbi Yosef that Rav Mikhael referred to, of PA, was an actual person and not the same Rabbi Yosef that was posting about the Book of Mormon. So I typed up an apology and a correction and sent it as well.
Apology and Correction
This was not posted also. Which in a way I was grateful for, so that I could remove the mistake and correct it, sparing any confusion or offense, between the two Rabbi’s and Rav Michael.
Since my post didn’t go through, I got another e-mail address on 7-3-2000, thinking that maybe they always screen the first post. So if I posted a few innocuous posts, for a few days, I might be able to get my evidence through. That day, I saw that the archives of m-kabbalah, bom-messianic, bom-archaeology and jewishbom had all been purged. They were there the night before and now gone. I knew that James had seen my attempted post and gotten rid of evidence, since he started them as Rabbi Yosef. Thankfully, I had the foresight to copy all the pages sited in the original post, using the view source. The view source pages show all the routing and DNS numbers, dates, etc. The pages I copied only dealt with the time period that 3 names occurred and were not chosen for content, but date. Other evidence, dealing with subject matter was gone, and that I would have to find other ways.
This let me know several things: 1. James did see the attempted post, 2. that instead of admitting responsibility, he sought to cover his tracks, and 3. there was something there that he did not want to come to light.
I decided to send the evidence to the SANJ Beit Din members
and the Friends of the Court, of which James Trimm is the head. I sent the initial
information and sent as an attachment, the pages of the post, and the
pages of the view sources for the different listsgroups that I sited.
First E-mail to SANJ Beit Din members
First E-mail to Beit Din Members
I did not receive one single question or comment from any member, except James Trimm. He sent me an e-mail, which I will copy now. Pay careful attention to this e-mail. James later sent out an e-mail to all his lists and in it, he says that he copied the exact letter that he sent to me, which he carbon copied to the Beit Din. But he does not show any headers with date, time, who it was sent to, nothing. It is not even a complete letter and it is chopped up, with parts deleted and new parts added. The one that James sent out on 7-7-2000 is a revision of the original, which was sent 7-4-2000. This is the original and I can forward directly this letter to anyone that wants it, for them to see for themselves and compare. Notice on the header, there are no carbon copies to the Beit Din.
E-mail from James Trimm 7-4-2000 admitting to being Rabbi Yosef
Instead of waiting for a few days and then posting, I posted immediately with the new address from netscape. This post removed the passage of the two Yosef’s and added more information on the DNS numbers. I had also forgotten to type up another group of James Trimm/Rabbi Yosef/Yosef Liahona numbers from the chofjclist – a Mormon site, that he was not the moderator or creator of. So that evidence was added as well. I also included an update at the bottom, of what was going on. I offered the e-mail from James and the pages of evidence, to anyone interested.
A peculiar note, James Trimm lists toward the latter part of the e-mail, that [Mrs. H.] is facing problems NOT because she has researched the Book of Mormon, ...5. ... This evidence that Michael offers, he never sends. But what I find interesting, is what Michael says of her in a post, 8-1-99.
Post 21047 Michael Detwiler
Second Post Tahorah, from netscape.net
This post did not go through either. I did not think that
it would and decided to manually post, to as many people that were on the nazarene
forum, as possible. I made a list of the names and/or e-mail address portion,
for the bulk of the people that had posted in the last couple of months. The
e-mail addresses are not shown in their entirety. They have the first potion
and the @, with the first letter of the remaining portion, ******@*. I felt
these people were due the evidence and that [Mrs. H. ] was due an apology. Here
is the e-mail I sent to 50 names that I could find. I had to break the list
into two mailings, since my server does not allow that many names at one time.
The following is just one mailing.
Manual Mailing to Forum Members
Manual Mailing to Forum Members 7-6-2000
Page View Source Evidence
I received a number of e-mails from people thanking me for researching this and providing the truth. I had a number of requests for the e-mail from James and the page view source evidence. I only had three that were derogatory. Two of which I will have to show, because it leads into what follows in this series of lies.
djhome61 1st e-mail accusing me of being [Mrs. H.]
This man then proceeds to post at the forum, one of the few posts to get through of course.
Post 39933 djhome61
, on 7-6-2000
James Trimm then replies:
James Trimm Reply Post 39934 Spam 7-6-2000
I had read the egroups spam policy before I started the mailings. What they described as spam, was not what I was doing. So I proceeded with the mailing. After James Trimm’s post that I was spamming, I called my ISP and asked them. I told them exactly what was going on and described my e-mail in detail, and they told me that I was in no way spamming. They also wanted the egroups address to see the post that James Trimm put up, referring to it as spam and suggesting that people report it to my ISP.
Chanah Swartz then posts a reply, 39949 to djhome61 saying:
I personally was very glad that someone took the time to do the HW
and get to the truth. And I'm very glad that I was informed of the
truth about the [Mrs. H.] /Rabbi issue. The letter which was sent out
does not constitute spamming. I'm not sure why you just don't write
them and tell them that you're not interested in any more information
which is uncovered. It doesn't need to be a big production.
djhome61 then proceeded to lie
djhome61 Post 39950
Here is a copy of the reply that I sent to djhome61, with the forward of James Trimm’s e-mail, admitting to posting as Rabbi Yosef. So this person could see that I did not make this up and my evidence was accurate and true, so much so, that James Trimm had to admit it. Not once did djhomes ask or tell me not to send them any further e-mails, but in their post, they misquote what I said and accuse me of being insulting, after they have accused me of being [Mrs. H.] and questioning my motives.
Reply to djhome61 7-6-2000
Since this lie was posted on the forum, accusing me of spamming, and of being insulting when asked to not send any further information, I decided to set the matter straight. I sent another e-mail to the 50 names, minus djhome61, who did not want to be mailed to, as the forum posts states. I sent them the forward of the e-mail from James Trimm, copying the e-mail from djhome61, so they could see that I had been misquoted.
Second e-mail to the
50 forum members 7-7-2000
What is interesting about the spam accusation, is that James Trimm defines spam, at his own site as:
James Trimm Spam Policy :
Michael Detwiler responds
Now to the second e-mail that was derrogatory, that applies to future lies. This was from Michael Detwiler, the Av of the Beit Din.
Response from Michael Detwiler, 7-6-2000, to my mailing to the 50
Michael Detwiler arrogantly assumed that my motives for posting the truth, were to aid [Mrs. H.], in whatever other charges they claimed against her. I have spoken to the [H's] Rabbi. He requested all the information I had. I did not want, nor did the [H's] want, for me to be involved, in something that did not apply to me. My purpose in posting the evidence was to find the truth about Rabbi Yosef and why this woman was being accused of slander and lashon hara for the statement that James Trimm was Rabbi Yosef, advocating the Book of Mormon. I will not address the other matters they accuse the [H's] of, their Rabbi is dealing with that. I do find it interesting though, that the claimed evidence that Michael Detwiler offered, never was sent to substantiate their accusations. I also find it odd, that in a post on the nazarene forum, dated 8-21-99, before the time that [Mrs. H.] stated that James Trimm was Rabbi Yosef, Michael Detwiler says of [Mrs. H.], " [Mrs. H.], you are a Nazarene, with a prophetic gifting. Michael "
Post 21047 Michael Detwiler
What I do want to point out in this, is the tone and direction Michael takes with me. He is sarcastic about the efforts that I have taken and the motive, in posting the truth, he states that I misrepresented facts in my “investigation”, that I have a “plot” against James, accuses me of hiding behind flash.net, and then proceeds to tell me, “ If you are so very interested in 'truth' then privately email me your full name, phone, and address. You have nothing to hide. I will detail to you the best manner, privately, to be a help in this situation rather than to be a facilitator.” How arrogant and patronizing. The following is my reply.
My Reply to Michael Detwiler, 7-6-2000
Michael Detwiler did not respond, or provide any of the
claimed evidence against [Mrs. H.], that he offered. This e-mail comes into
play, concerning the revised e-mail from James Trimm on the 7th. Portions of
it are quoted and addressed. Michael sent this letter to James Trimm, who then
tried to discredit me, as the source, trying to thereby discredit my evidence.
Rabbi Yosef/Yosef Liahona/Steve Cohen
So far, all that I had posted, dealt with the evidence that I had originally found. While all this was going on, I scoured the chojclist, which James could not control or purge. There, I found posts from Rabbi Yosef, that clearly stated his views of the Book of Mormon and its relationship to the Jews and the Bible. These posts you can view, since they are still there, or I can send you the copied pages, which includes the page source, showing James Trimm as the originator.
Evidence from Rabbi Yosef Posts
Also, on the nazarene site, a peculiar thing happens. Because people send in their forwards to nazarene.net, you do not see their addresses on the view source. But while doing a BoM search at the nazarene list, I came across a guy that was also supporting the BoM, during the month of October 1999. His name was Steve Cohen. I checked the view source just to see what the beginning of his address was and if by any chance the server began with an h, for hotmail. I didn’t even have to do a search on that one. Since James was the poster, they never deleted his address from the view source. All of the Steve Cohen posts were like that. They show in view source, the same origination number as James Trimm. I have copies of these, in case they tried to delete Steve Cohen posts.
from Steve Cohen Posts
Post 429 egroups two_sticks
James Trimm as Yosef Liahona, quoting, The Growing Together of the Bible and the Book of Mormon
by Raymond C. Treat
James Trimm, as Rabbi Yosef and Steve Cohen, state:
that the BoM was valid, inspired, the renewed covenant spoken of by YirmeYahu,
a coming together of the Bible and the BoM. James Trimm, as Rabbi Yosef, was
translating a "Jewish Book of Mormon" to reach out to Jews with it, so
they would not be offended by Gentile terms. He referred people to archaeology
and authors to support the accuracy and validity of the Book of Mormon, said
that it was written by descendants of Jews for Gentiles and Jews, and said that
the Mormons were Ephraim and that Judah and Ephraim, as well as the Bible and
the Book of Mormon, were to be brought together. That does not sound like he
was going to forums to glean information or doing research, that sounds proactive
and a statement of beliefs. Whatever he chooses to be proactive about, that
is his to decide, but if he is slandering people about it, or playing two sides
of the fence, telling each side different versions, and that involves lies,
and lying is a problem for me, so is slandering.
I called Dr. Phillip Arnold, on 7-3-2000, of the Reunion Institute, who headed the Religious Crisis Task Force. James Trimm is a member of the group, but the group is not active. There is a much larger group of theologians, Dr. Arnold explained, that is filling the purpose of working with government agencies, concerning religious groups. Dr. Arnold said that if an agency should call on the Crisis Task Force, it could be resurrected to deal with a situation. He also said that James Trimm was not doing this research and "infiltrating" forums for the Religious Crisis Task Force, but that it must be for his own personal research.
Since James Trimm has stated that this is research, that his transcript from the Seminary shows SPEC hours for Mormon Theology; Branch Davidian Theology; Branch Davidian Publication and Research Advisor, and since he has proven to state things that are not so and deny those which are, then I have to check this out as well. I have asked James Trimm, in an e-mail, where he got his doctorate from, since he refers to his doctorate, to back up his studies of these groups. I have received no e-mail answering my question.
The following section deals with the slanderous accusations
against me, that I am anti-semitic, etc, that appeared in James Trimm's
revised letter of 7-7-2000, mailed out to his list.