The following is the email from Stan Eisenberg, with his permission to copy
it for this
mailing.
Subject: Response to posting
Date:
From: "Stan Eisenberg" <deleted for
privacy >
To: "'Undisclosed List'" <deleted for privacy>
To Whom It May Concern:
I am Stan Eisenberg, a Messianic Jewish Rabbi. I have written this email as
a response to a forum posting that I recently became aware of. A posting
written by James Scott Trimm as his response to an inquiry
put forth by Art
Konrad in a forum. .In James Scott Trimm's posting he wrote of a Messianic
Jewish congregation and its leader. I was that Messianic Jewish leader and
the posting contains half truths, lies, and slander. In order to provide
continuity, I have included Mr. Konrad's inquiry at
the end of this email. I
apologize for the wordiness of my email, but I want to insure that my words
convey as clearly as possible what I mean
I write this response without malice, but in love to inform you of the
truth. The love in John 8:32 that tells us; "...you shall know the truth,
and the truth shall make you free." Many people are in bondage without
knowing or even realizing that they are in bondage. Half truths do not set
one free, only the whole truth in love sets one free. It is in this context
that I write.
Many who read this email may feel hurt, deceived, angry, or other emotions,
either against Scott Trimm or me. We are taught in
Romans 8:28 that in the
middle of turmoil, upheaval, or hurt, "G-d causes all things to work
together for good; to those who love G-d, to those who are called according
to His purpose."
I knew James Scott Trimm as Scott Trimm from the latter half of the 1980's
to the early 1990's. I will therefore refer to him as Scott Trimm
in this
communication. I am also well acquainted with his actions and their results
during that time period. I will provide more detailed information about that
time period later in this response. The only contact I have had with Scott
Trimm since the early 1990's is a few emails and, I
believe, two phone calls
within the past year. Within the last two to three years I have had
reasonably frequent communication with his first wife before she recently
passed away.
It would be an error to write that I am completely objective about Scott
Trimm. My objectivity concerning Scott Trimm has been and still is somewhat
colored by my experience with him and his family during the time he was
attending the Messianic Jewish congregation he wrote about in his posting.
But facts are facts and I will relate the facts of action and
circumstance-facts that can be confirmed by others. I will not color the
facts with feelings.
Since Scott Trimm has made certain statements in
his posting, he has made
those areas open and vulnerable for a full and truthful response. I have not
changed any wording or spelling in Scott Trimm's
posting. I have separated
phrases, sentences, or sections in order to respond to what was written by
Scott Trimm. To clearly distinguish between his
writing and my response, I
have enclosed Scott Trimm's comments in double angle
brackets (<< >>) and
labeled his posting comments and my response with our names.
The Scriptures instruct and command us to be discerning, perceptive, and
very mathematical in analyzing facts and circumstance.
Deuteronomy 32:7 commands us to be intelligently informed of the past.
Luke
pretending to be righteous in order to catch Him.
In 1 Kings 3:9 Solomon asked G-d to "... give therefore Thy servant an
understanding heart to judge Thy people, that I may discern between good and
evil:...."
To those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, let them see, hear and
perceive. I leave you with Matthew 7:15-20.
Sincerely in The Messiah,
Stan Eisenberg
Messianic Rabbi
Congregation Beth Shalom
POB 1335
Absecon NJ 08201
========= Start of posting with response
==============
<<From: James Trimm <jstrimm@h...>
Date:
Subject: [nazarene] History of SANJ and I
Someone on another list asked about my background and that of SANJ as well
as our goals.>>
RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
Since I do not know what other list Scott wrote about, I have sent this
response to many individuals.
<<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
I thought I would post the reply here as well:
Myself I am a Nazarene Jew. I was a Rabbinic Jew until I found Yeshua to
be the Messiah of Judaism when I was 18 (I am now 34).>>
RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
Not true. Scott Trimm may have practiced Rabbinic
Judaism, but according to
investigative documentation, that can be viewed at the
website noted at the
end of this paragraph, Scott Trimm was not
born Jewish. The website also
contains documentation that indicates Scott Trimm has
no Jewish ancestry at
least back three or four generations on either his mother or father's side.
In addition, I have in my possession emails from his first wife that also
indicate he was not born Jewish. and that his mother
denies any Jewish
background in Scott Trimm's family. Investigative
documentation on Scott
Trimm can be viewed at the following website.
http://home.flash.net/~purnhrt/truth/
<<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
At first I was a fish out of water. I tried attending a Christian church
on
Sundays an my
old Synagogue on Friday nights. This did not work at all. To my old
friends at the Synagogue I was an apostste Christian
and to my new
aquaintances at the "Church" I was a Judaizer. The leaders of the Church
directed me to a Messianic Jewish Congregation. >>
RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
Concerning the Messianic Jewish congregation he wrote about. When
Scott
Trimm was 18 to 20 years old (1984-1986) he was
living in the Fort Worth
Dallas metroplex area. During the 1980's and
early 1990's there were only
two known functioning Messianic Jewish congregations in the Fort
Worth-Dallas, Texas, metroplex area. One in
Dallas-Baruch HaShem
Congregation; Messianic leader Marty Waldman; and one in Fort Worth--Beth
Yeshua Congregation, of which I was a co-founder in
1979 and the Messianic
leader until 1997. Therefore I have first hand knowledge of Beth Yeshua
Congregation's vision and operation, as well as first hand knowledge of
Scott Trimm's involvement with that Messianic Jewish
congregation he wrote
about; namely Beth Yeshua Congregation of Fort Worth,
Texas.
<<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
.This particular congregation was very Christian. They met on Friday
nights
and Sundays
(this was changed to Saturday after a few years.)>>
RABBI EISENERG RESPONSE:
It is not true that Beth Yeshua Congregation was very
Christian. Many
Rabbinic synagogues, or Talmudic synagogues as I call them, meet on Friday
evening, and/or Saturday morning, and hold Hebrew school lessons on Sunday
morning. They even call the Sunday classes "Sunday School." Based on
Scott
Trimm's comment and logic, that would make many
Talmudic Jewish synagogues
very Christian. This is obviously not a true statement, and does not apply
to Beth Yeshua Congregation, the congregation that Scott Trimm wrote
about.
>From 1979 to approximately 1986 Beth Yeshua
Messianic Jewish Congregation
met on Friday evenings and had Scripture classes
on Sunday morning with
Midrash (Scripture discussions) Sunday afternoon. The
Friday evening service
became very difficult for a number of attendees to participate in after a
week of work, especially those with children. So in 1986 or 1987 the
congregation as a whole decided to move services from Friday evening to
Shabbat (Saturday) morning .The Midrash was moved to
Shabbat afternoon.
<<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE
They deemed me a legalist for not eating the pork products they put out in
the covered-dish dinner.>>
RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
This is not true and is slanderous. Because our vision and ministry was to
proclaim the message of salvation through the Blood Atonement of Israel's
Messiah, Yeshua, within a Jewish Biblical, cultural,
and traditional
context, and to develop a Messianic Jewish lifestyle among those who
attended the congregation, we never allowed nor had pork or shell fish
products in the synagogue or at any congregational activity. Many of those
attending the congregation, Jewish and non-Jewish, didn't eat pork or
shellfish products at home, including my family. Many attendees were very
detailed to insure that they did not ingest pork or shellfish products. For
example: a few families were planning on purchasing gelatin in bulk. They
called Nabisco company to investigate the contents of the
gelatin they had
planned to purchase. When they found out that the gelatin could be from
horse or pig hoofs, they never ordered the gelatin. We even checked the
ingredient labels of so-called imitation seafood salad sold in the grocery
store. They very often contain a small amount of real crab, other shell fish
products, or natural flavoring.
Therefore, since we were not eating
pork or shellfish products, it stands
to reason that we would not call Scott Trimm a
legalist. Matthew 7:1-2
teaches us that with the same measurement we judge, we will be judged. This
explanation exposes the lie and slander of Scott Trimm's
statement.
<<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
And they shunned me for studying the Talmud.>>
RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
Again not true. Scott was never shunned for studying Talmud. I personally
counseled him to put as much, if not more, time in studying The Scripture;
Tenach (Old Testament) and Brit Chadashah
(New Testament). Others in the
congregation also discussed with Scott the need to study the Word of G-d as
intensely as he studied Talmud. He was never shunned for studying Talmud.
Scott opened this area by writing this statement.
He was not shunned but asked to
leave the congregation because he would not
listen to Biblical counsel concerning his responsibilities as a husband and
a father. He was sending his first wife, who was legally blind, out to work
while he spent time at their apartment studying and watching his young
daughter and hard core pornographic videos. My wife and I were called to
their apartment by his first wife who was upset about the videos. As we spot
checked the videos it was obvious that they definitely had hard core
pornographic content. This makes my wife and me first hand witnesses to this
fact in accordance with Deuteronomy 19:15, with reference to Matthew
18:15-17;."...by the mouth of two or three
witnesses every fact may be
confirmed."
Later
his first wife pleaded with my wife and me to help her
get out of their apartment because Scott was abusing her and she was
concerned for herself and her daughter. We helped her to a safe house. Scott
then stalked my family and me until he and I had a confrontation at the curb
in front of my home in
contact with him.
<<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
I soon found out that the congregation was a Baptsist
on to the Jews >>
RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
Not true. Beth Yeshua Congregation was not and never
was a Baptist mission
to reach my Jewish people. In the 1970's and the first half of the 1980's
there were no Messianic Jewish yeshivot (schools for
study) in existence. I
did study at the Baptist Seminary in
earned a Master of Divinity degree. Before my graduation I had already been
called by HaShem to reach my people from within a
Jewish Biblical, cultural,
and traditional context. That was always the vision of Beth Yeshua
Congregation while I was the Messianic leader. We had training classes to
teach the attendees to know, understand, and practice Biblical Judaism. The
classes covered respecting Torah, how to participate in a Talmudic and
Messianic Jewish service, lifestyle in the home, incorporating proper Jewish
Biblical and secular terminology into their daily lives, and much more. The
congregation was not by any stretch of the imagination a Christian Baptist
church, except maybe in Scott Trimm's mind,.
Beth Yeshua
Congregation was a full fledged intense Messianic Jewish
congregation. Because of our vision, congregational and individually, we
were very often told by well meaning yet uninformed Christians that we were
too Jewish. Scott Trimm's statement is not a true
statement.
<<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
and that there were only four other Jews there including the leader>>
RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
A half-truth. Beth Yeshua Congregation, the
congregation Scott Trimm wrote
about, had a Jewish constituency of between 33 to 50%. A few were raised
with a knowledge and practice of their Judaism. Many who came to the
congregation discovered later that they had documented Jewish heritage.
Prior to 1973 there were approximately four (4) functioning Messianic Jewish
congregations in the
grandparents who became believers had no Jewish lifestyle congregation or
assembly to go to. They were assimilated into the church. Many Jewish people
who were believers in the Messiah Yeshua (they would
have known Him then as
Jesus) and lived in anti Jewish areas denied their Jewish heritage because
of fear of anti Jewish acts against them. Their descendants would not have
practiced nor known of their Jewishness.
These are the individuals who became
aware of their previously hidden
Jewish heritage. There was a significant percentage of
these Jewish
individuals attending Beth Yeshua Congregation's
activities.
<<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
Only the leader had ever practiced Judaism and then it had been Reformed.>>
RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
Not true. During my childhood and teenage years I attended a Conservative
Jewish synagogue located in the
Conservative. I was Bar Mitzvah in a Conservative Jewish ceremony and
continued to attend Conservative Jewish synagogues where they were present.
<<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
He had converted to Catholicism years earlier to mary
his Catholic wife,
then gotten involved in the Occult and then gotten "Saved" thru Jews
for
Jesus and become a Baptist minister.>>
RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
Another half truth. I never converted to Catholicism. My wife was never
Catholic. She was raised in a Protestant denomination and did take Roman
Catholic catechism as a teenager. She never finished that course of study
because she was told to leave as a result of her asking too many questions
the priest could not or would not answer. When we were married, she chose to
convert to and practice the Conservative Jewish faith. In the area we lived
at the time, there was only an Orthodox Jewish synagogue. We attended their
services and spoke with the rabbi. Because my wife grew up in a Protestant
denomination, the strictness of Orthodox Judaism was more than she wanted to
work with. So we attended a Reform synagogue 37 miles from where we lived.
Although her conversion studies and subsequent formal registered conversion
to Judaism was accomplished in the Reform Jewish synagogue, we both
practiced Conservative Judaism.
In our search for spiritual reality,
which we were not taught about in
Talmudic Judaism, we were invited by a Roman Catholic couple to get involved
in the occult, which we did, but not to the extent of Satan worship. I do
have testimony however that Scott Trimm was involved
in Satan worship. After
awhile we were guided by this Roman Catholic couple to the Romanist church.
It was at that time we took catechism, but never converted. We were directed
to a Bible study where literature from the Campus Crusades for Christ
ministry was lying around. The material contained the message of Messiah's
Blood Atonement. We recognized the Truth of that message. In 1973 we
confessed our sins, accepted Yeshua as
Atonement to wash away our sins. The terms I use here were not the terms we
understood then. We never gave up the Jewish practices we were observing.
There was a cultural conflict present because of the teachings of the
church, and what we saw and practiced in Biblical Judaism. A short time
later we understood that it was alright to accept Yeshua
as The Jewish
Messiah and still remain Biblically, culturally, and traditionally Jewish.
We have practiced Biblical Judaism since that time.
Sometime later I answered the call
to preach. Yes, we were attending a
Baptist church at the time-I mentioned earlier that there were only 4
functioning Messianic Jewish congregations in the
was in the Long Island NY area. Therefore my association was with the
Southern Baptist denomination, but I still considered myself Jewish and
shared that viewpoint any time I could.
<<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
He did however direct me to the local Baptist Seminary Library where I
spent literally HOURS trying to make sense of it all. I researched the
"early church" and sought out Hebrew and Aramaic sources for the New
Testament. I soon discoverred
that the original Jewish followers of Yeshua
had not been early Christians, but a Jewish sect called "Nazarenes".
I
learned that these Nazarenes continued to observe Torah and to practice
Judaism while accepting Yeshua, not as the founder of
a New Religion, not as
the "Christ" of Christianity, but as the Messiah of Judaism. I
learned
everything I could about them. I also learned everthing
I could about
Judaism as it relates to the "New Testament". And I traced down
the Hebrew
and Aramaic manuscripts of the New Testament. Although I continued to
fellowship within Messianic Judaism I began calling myself a "Nazarene
Jew"
and showing photo copies of things the "Church Fathers" had said
about these
ancient Jewish followers of Yeshua. At one
point the leader told me I was
crazy.>>
RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE;
I never told Scott he was crazy. I counseled him to spend as much if not
more time in the Scripture, and to find a job to support his legally blind
first wife and their daughter. He refused..
<<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
In 1995 I earned my doctorate in Semitic Studies.>>
RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE::
I believe the above statement is not true. Please note the following timing.
Scott started with Beth Yeshua Congregation in
1986 or 1987. During the time he was attending Beth Yeshua
Congregation he
was not attending college. By 1990 or1991 Scott Trimm
was asked to leave
Beth Yeshua Congregation (the reasons are noted
above) and within a year we
had no further contact with him. To earn a Doctorate Degree, an individual
needs to earn a Bachelor's degree that normally takes a four year course of
study. I have heard of individuals finishing a 4 year study program in
slightly under three years.
If we assume he started a
Bachelor's Degree program in 1991, he
would have earned the Bachelor's Degree by 1994. That means Scott Trimm
would have had to start a Master's degree program by late 1994. A Master's
degree is a 3 year program. Such a program could conceivably be completed in
approximately two and 1/2 years. That brings us to an earned Master's degree
by 1996. A Doctorate Degree requires at least 2 years of study, that
possibly could be completed with much effort in about 1-1/2 years.. That
brings the timing to1997 or 1998.
The timing doesn't allow a Doctorate
Degree to be earned by Scott Trimm by
1995.
<<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
The same year I joined an internet listserver
called roots-of-faith which
discussed Christian origins (It went down in 1996). The Nazarenes were a
major topic on the list so one day I took a gamble and posted a message
asking how many people regarded themselves as modern Nazarenes. Several
replied back that they did to my pleasant surprise. At about that time I
met a web designer named Eric Sandquist and we set up
a website to promote
the idea. The Website was a HUGE success (113,507 hits to date) so we put
up a number of our own listservers as well as many
sub-websites. They were
also a BIG success. By 1999 there were a number of Nazarene assemblies
meeting around the world and that year we held our first annual conference
(Netzarim '99). My personal goals are the
restoration of the Nazarene Sect
of Judaism, the restoration of the Hebrew and Aramaic New Testament and the
clarification of understanding of the NT in light of its Jewish roots.
James Trimm >>
RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
In conclusion. Scott Trimm's personal goals may be
what he states above, but
from experience with him and his first wife; a little experience with his
present wife before they were married while I was still in Fort Worth,
Texas; my communication with his first wife within the last two years before
she passed away, I must conclude that there are hidden ulterior motives in
Scott Trimm's goals.
=========End of posting with response===============