James Trimm's relationship with the Book of Mormon

James Trimm has stated varying things to varying groups about the BoM. To the Mormons, he would say that it was inspired and the renewed covenant and that Mormons were the House of Ephraim. To the Messianic's he would state that the BoM was possibly demonically inspired and that he was trying to wean them off the BoM. Then when caught about being Rabbi Yosef, he stated it was for academic purposes, which then caused me to delve into his credentials (which are false). When I made my first attempted post to the nazarene forum, and the next day all the forums that James Trimm started as Rabbi Yosef, were purged, it made me wonder what was at those sites that he did not want anyone to see. So I have sought the information from other avenues. One major source has been a Mormon forum that James Trimm posted to, under his name and under Rabbi Yosef and Yosef Liahona. Not only does this site have posts under these names, but they also have forwards from the purged sites. This has been a major help in reconstructing what exactly James Trimm was doing under these other names. In short, he was not doing research, nor was he weaning Mormons from the BoM.

Another factor comes into play. James Trimm was at his own nazarene forum, under the name Steve Cohen. What was he doing at a nazarene site advocating the BoM? There were no Mormons there to research, there were no Mormons there to wean off the BoM. The only people mentioning the BoM were those taught by James Trimm, as Rabbi Yosef that the BoM was an ancient Jewish writing, and James Trimm as Steve Cohen. Another interesting point, is that the nazarene forum e-mails go to the nazarene site, then get routed to e-groups. This means that you wont see the e-mail origin on the page view source. But Steve Cohen's you do, because they didn't get sent from an outside source to the nazarene, they came from James Trimm and therefore did not have to be filtered first. And you can't do a name search on Steve Cohen, at that forum.

For those of you who do not know, James Trimm posted under several names, advocating the Book of Mormon. My initial evidence was using DNS numbers. Here is a link to an explanation of DNS numbers on your e-mails.

 DNS information

Now to the networkers that I spoke with, they were sure that James Trimm was the man behind the other names, based on the first two groups and sometimes a third group of numbers, but when someone asked me about the fourth group f numbers, after James Trimm was posting that you cant base it off of the first two groups, and some people might believe him, I spent hours and found the strings that had all FOUR groups of numbers that matched. Not only do I have some that match all four groups, but the matches show the connection with all FOUR names. I now have a match, with a complete string, involving the posts of James Trimm, Steve Cohen and Rabbi Yosef. Three names to one complete string.

 DNS Complete matches

Now, if that were not enough, how about a confession? Would that convince some of you? Becauase that is what James did, when I sent my evidence to his Beit Din members. The next morning I got an e-mail from him, and in it he admits that he was Rabbi Yosef and went to forums and used other names. But here is the kicker, he says that he was doing it for research purposes. That he "infiltrated" forums and gathered information. He stated that he was with the Religious Crisis Task Force, which watches these groups so that another Waco will not happen. I called Dr. Phillip Arnold, of the RCTF. He stated that they were a dormant group, not active. And that James Trimm must be doing this for his own studies, because he wasn't doing it for them. Which then led me to checking into these so called credentials. But that is all on the Doctorate Page.  Below is a link to the letter that James sent out admitting the other names. Also, below is another letter from his vice-president and Av of his Beit Din, Michael Detwiler, who stated he knew that James Trimm was Rabbi Yosef and that it was not new news.

 James Trimm's email admitting Yosef

James Trimm, "I will say that two days ago I conversed with Mike Detwiler (VP of SANJ)
and in that conversation I told him that I indeed HAD participated in Mormon forums as well as Islamic forums since 1996 sometimes under my own name and sometimes under pen names. I told him that I had indeed at times posted on such forums under various pen names including 'Yosef'."

James also says that he "infiltrated" various Mormon lists, "Never in this process do I  advocate the books involved (other than the Bible).", and " I even suggested the possibility that the Book of Mormon might have been DEMONICLY inspired."

Here is something interesting. James Trimm and Rabbi Yosef, both request to join the chofjclist, a Mormon forum, at the same time.

              " From:   <EarlyRR@a...>
               Date: Mon Sep 27, 1999 8:32pm
               Subject: Two New Members

               Dear List

               Dr. James Trimm and Rabbi Yosef have both
               requested to join our list. SO--- even though
               neither are Restorationists, I have okayed them.
               Now you can ask all the questions you want to
               ask about Jewish dates, traditions, etc.

               In Yeshua, Jesus
               Mirl "

 Michael Detwilers e-mail not new news

Michael Detwiler, "Oh, and it is not 'new' news that James did participate in the BoM site as Yosef and other names (though the major Yosef on the list was Kurt Neumiller) , and that he has also participated and created Muslim forums (under other names), various Yahwist lists (oneness doctrines), the Ebionite lists (anti 'Paulist'),  etc.  This was / is and attempt to take the truth of Torah and Moshiach to these various groups."

With all the evidence, the DNS numbers and the confession and statement of knowledge, you can proceed to see, exactly what James Trimm was writing about the BoM and what his real relationship was.

Below are links to pages showing the posts of James Trimm as Rabbi Yosef and Steve Cohen. Read through these and you will see that James was not doing research or weaning, James was advocating, teaching and translating a Jewish Book of Mormon, intended for Jews and Gentiles.

Rabbi Yosef Posts

 Steve Cohen Posts

Here is a post by Errol Feldman, on the nazarene forum. When Sandra Hawkins listed the link to the Jewishness of the BoM website, that was run by James Trimm as Rabbi Yosef, Feldman checked it out and came back on the nazarene forum with quotes from James Trimm as Rabbi Yosef.

 Errol Feldmans nazarene post

Now if you think it ended there, you would be mistaken. Below are the letters and communication between myself, Greg Gnauman and the Nazarene Beit Din, of  James Trimm's  involvement with Greg Gnauman, a Morman gentleman, that has plans to put up a Jewish Book of Mormon website and wants James Trimms teachings on it.

In order to convince a man, who is Mormon, who believes James teachings that the Book of Mormon is an
ancient Jewish writing, that James had lied to him about saying that the Beit Din made him post the 6 steps
on the forum, stating that his purpose was to wean the Mormons off the BoM, I wrote to the Beit Din
members asking them. I took the Beit Din replies and forwarded them to Ger, to show that James had lied to him. The Beit Din did not force James to post  the 6 steps.

 Six Steps letter to the Beit Din members

 Reply from Steve Heiliczer about 6 steps

 First reply from Luana Fabry

 My reply to Luana Fabry

 Michael Detwilers questions about Greg Gnauman

These questions were based on the quotes from e-mails to me from Greg Gnauman, which I quoted in my e-mail to Luana Fabry.

 My Reply to Michael Detwiler about Greg Gnauman and James Trimm

That was the last I heard from any of the Beit Din members, concerning James and the Book of Mormon.
James Trimm then makes e-mails and posts stating:

 Setting Some Things Straight - BoM

The Book of Mormon is addressed about half way through. He also posted this to his lists and some forums, on 8-13-2000.

 BoM slander

Then James made this post to the egroups/israelight forum.

 IsraeLight forum post 1279

In all these posts and e-mails, James Trimm is very adamant that he does not believe the BoM to be true or advocate it in any way. But remember, that he is speaking to the Messianic community. When James speaks to the Mormons, he says something else. Which is evidenced by his posts under Rabbi Yosef and Steve Cohen.

Again, if you thought that was the end, again, you would be wrong. James Trimm still has his foot in the Mormon door and intends to keep it there. The following are some posts from another Mormon forum, on egroups, called book-of-mormon-truth, which is moderated by Mike Kelley.

This first one is from a gentleman named Troy Bert. He had seen the six steps post at nazarene forum and saw James Trimm at this forum. Troy Bert confronted James about the hidden agenda and warned other forum members.

 Hidden Agenda Troy Bert

James Trimm now has to explain. Is he snagged for "infiltrating" their forum and trying to wean them from the BoM? Or, is he going to have to explain that that is only something he says to Messianics?

 James Explanations

Hey. I think James is calling me an anti-semite again. I am the least of James Trimm's problems. There is ONE who does see everything that James does and writes, hears everything that James says, and knows his heart. I am not all knowing or seeing or hearing and I do not know the hearts of men.  Nor do I need to "monitor" James Trimm. YHWH seems to keep throwing things across my lap. YHWH is shining His light on these situations and making truth known.

Here are two additional bits of info. These are two posts that James wrote last Nov. The third was just posted at the IsraeLight forum. In them he gives his views of the House of Ephraim. Here, to a Messianic audience, he states that Ephraim were those scattered across Europe, the Lost Ten Tribes. Notice how he says one thing to the Mormons, and another thing to the Messianics? Now compare that with what he says as Rabbi Yosef about the House of Ephraim.

 James views

 More views

 Now Views

By the way, James teaching on this subject of Beyth Efrayim and Beyth Yahudah, to either group, is not scriptural. James teaches sectarianism and elitism.

Now, I have a big question. Where are all these Mormons that James has weaned off of the Book of Mormon and he brought them to Torah?

James was at the chofjclist from 9-27-99 to 6-11-2000. Interestingly enough, Greg Gnauman was there during that time. He is not weaned from the BoM. In fact, Greg believed that "God" was doing all this revealing of James Trimm as Rabbi Yosef, to make James stop hiding about it, so that people would know the "truth", that the BoM was a Jewish writing. Also, Mike Kelley and Troy Bert of the Book-of-Mormon-Truth forum, were at the chojclist as well. They also are not "weaned". So who are all the weaned ones. Where is the "fruit" of this so called 6 steps program that James was doing? I am not buying it. He was not there to research or to wean. Whether or not James Trimm really belives the Book of Mormon, is up in the air. What I do know is that he is a liar, a deceiver and is duplicitious. This is not cohesive with righteousness.

Now, if the matter of the Book of Mormon, in the Messianic communities eyes is false, then James Trimm needs to be judged with the same measure that the Hawkins were judged. According to the charges labeled against them, as posted by Michel Detwiler, the Av of the Beit Din, on 1-13-2000, "'Maysit' (one who seduces others to go astray) According to their seductions and teachings of the Book of Mormon on the Nazarene list servers." "Promotion of "Dat Sheker" (False Religions) ".

Michael Detwilers post of charges

Michael Detwilers Maysit post

Now, if this is the stand of the Messianic and Nazarene community about the BoM, then those same standards need to be applied to the one that taught Sandra Hawkins what she believed about the BoM. He not only taught her, he taught numerous people the same thing from his multiple forums and his website. There needs to be an accountability here. You cannot judge a person from the assembly one way and judge a "leader" another. That is not Thorah, that is not righteous. That is showing partiality in the matters of Thorah - Malakiy 2:9.

The following page shows some posts of Greg Gnauman, who has taken offense to being called a Mormom. Then James Trimm sent Gregs email to me, to his list members stating that there were untrue statements at my website, one of which being that Greg says he is not Mormon, then goes on to explain that he belongs to a restoration branch of the RLDS. This is splitting of hairs and is not an untrue statement. The Watchman Expositor link below,  might help explain who is who in the Mormon church. Also, a minor point, Greg's listing of the broadcast in question, on Torah Talk, might not be the one he mentioned to me on the phone. I distinctly remembering him refer to James on Torah Talk and the BoM coming up. Because Greg said that when James Trimm's wife had a seizure, that he had heard that happening to others when the BoM was read. Now if the incident related on Torah Talk is not correct, it is due to the telling by Greg Gnauman. I had only heard one Torah Talk episode, where James could not even read a verse in Hebrew, which a caller asked for, and instead gave the "English translation" of it. But that is another matter. The point being, my initial thought when this was told to me, was that if hearing the BoM caused seizures, perhaps there was something not quite right with it. Since I cannot access Torah Talk archives, I can neither confirm nor deny Gregs telling of the episode to me. One of the posts by Greg shows that Greg knew that James Trimm was Rabbi Yosef and wrote it in the subject line of the post plugging a Torah Talk broadcast that James would be on.

 Greg Gnauman posts

Watchman article RLDS

Continued BoM forum activity

In Nov., I was curious one day, to see if James had the BoM forums back up. I checked and the main pages were there, which show the calendar of posts each month. I saw that the forums have been active the whole time, it was just that the e-mails were no longer archived on the net, but the group page showed that they were continuing. I sent the pages to myself and two weeks later, I sent them again. They had continued activity just in the few weeks I first saw them. Then, I sent these pages to Michael Detwiler and one other man, to prove that James was still continuing with the BoM. After that point, when James was aware that I was aware, and the activity has stopped on that list. That does not mean it is stopped altogether, just on the lists activity I can view.

 bom-archaeology 1
 jewishbom 1
 m-kabbalah 1
 bom-archaeology 2
 jewishbom 2
 m-kabbalah 2

1/01 continued activity

The following posts occur at three forums; two_sticks, davids_outcasts and Book-of-Mormon-Truth, all of which discuss the BoM. Dean Mansfield gave a testimony, which involved a statement about "Rabbi Yosef" found to not be Jewish. A man named Robert (Bob) Frost, then questioned why Dean would believe that and said that he knew him personally. James of course could not let that go, and unbeknownst to any of them, I was aware of the forums and had been watching periodically for months, to see if anything on Trimm would surface.

 Robert Frost 1419 two_sticks

Sandra Hawkins 1424 two_sticks

 Robert Frost 3429 davids_outcasts

 Robert Frost 3448 davids_outcasts

Robert Frost 3471 davids_outcasts

 Robert Frost 3509 davids_outcasts

James defense

James Trimm 1428 two_sticks

Sandra Hawkins 1429 two_sticks

James Trimm 3533 davids_outcasts

Sandra Hawkins 1434 two_sticks

The subject of James disfellowshipping the Hawkins, for the Book of Mormon, came up on the two_sticks forum, again. Again, James denied that the BoM was the reason. On 3/27, post no. 1486, James advertised the losttribes forum, on the two_sticks forum. James has been plugging all of his forums lately, to build his base back up. Anyway, Sandra Hawkins replies the next day and points out that their discussions include the BoM, which he said they needed to be weaned of. She asks if he has had a change of heart.

If you will notice, James denies that the Book of Mormon was, in any way, responsible for the disaccomidation of the Hawkins. Yet, if you look at what was posted by Michael Detwiler, the vice-president of SANJ and the Av of the SANJ Beit Din, on James' nazarene forum, you can see quite clearly that the Book of Mormon was responsible, in part for the disaccomidation.

List of Charges

""Maysit" (one who seduces others to go astray) According to their seductions and teachings of the Book of
Mormon on the Nazarene list servers."

James never refuted this charge or altered it, on the nazarene forum. He once again, is trying, to those that believe in the BoM, to not appear against the Book of Mormon.

Also, though Robert Frost, who seems to be close to James Trimm, does not list the date of when the visits to LDS services occured, he does list that James and he attended them.


March/April 2001 Updates

The subject of James disfellowshipping the Hawkins, for the Book of Mormon, came up on the two_sticks forum, again. Again, James denied that the BoM was the reason. On 3/27, post no. 1486, James advertised the losttribes forum, on the two_sticks forum. James has been plugging all of his forums lately, to build his base back up. Anyway, Sandra Hawkins replies the next day and points out that their discussions include the BoM, which he said they needed to be weaned of. She asks if he has had a change of heart.

two_sticks post 1488 Sandra

Sandra makes good on her statement that she is going to subscribe and advertise her website, which deals with the BoM and two sticks. She then gets unsubscribed for her post. At which point, she goes back to two_sticks and reports what has happened. She states that they should not think that he supports the BoM and calls him an enemy of Zion.

two_sticks post 1489 Sandra

James, of course, cannot let this just ride, so he gets on and says she was banned because of her violating the rules and says that he is certainly not an enemy of Tziyon. Sandra then reponds and becomes more assertive. She states that James makes war against Zion for his teaching of weaning the Mormons off the BoM. "Please allow me to shed some prophetic truth on your ruling. You can not possibly be a leader of our people without ownership of a very public testimony of the Book of Mormon."

two_sticks post 1492 Sandra

In post 1494, James says that he will not carry on this conversation. He also states, "In fact I have friends who believe in the BoM and there are people who have been posting members of the Lost Tribes list for YEARS who believe in the Book of Mormon."

two_sticks post 1495 Sandra

Sandra then replies that it had everything to do with the BoM and copies the statement of charges that was posted at the nazarene forum, last year. In the next few posts, as Sandra states, she is treading him down for his vile untruths and that it is overdue.

On the 30th, James posts a letter of Sandra being "refellowshipped". Sandra is happy and not another word is spoken against James.

two_sticks post 1517 James

On 4/7, James announces that he is inviting everyone to a new forum he created, the BoM debate forum.

two_sticks post 1549 James

And again, Sandra is happy. I, of course, registered, but was banned.

Sandra Hawkins Book of Mormon site

I also went to Sandra's site, which I had seen before. It had very little, with a few short articles of her beliefs up there. This time, though, she had a lot more up there. Now this is the interesting part. Before the explosion at the nazarene forum, when Sandra exposed James Trimm as Rabbi Yosef, who advocated the BoM, Sandra and Michael, stated that James Trimm had called them and asked them to take over Rabbi Yosef. Since this was done by phone, she had no proof when he denied being Rabbi Yosef.

Sandra's site is sectioned into three parts; Genesis-Revelations, Repairing the Breach and the Book of Mormon. Most of the studies under Gen.-Rev. are James Trimm's, with credit given to him at the bottom of the page, as the writer. They do not deal with the Book of Mormon though. She also has a link to his site. Now this is the man that was such an enemy of Tziyon for not advocating the BoM. But there are articles on her 2nd and 3rd sections, that are James Trimm's, word for word, but do not have a name on them and without the disclaimer on top. They of course do deal with the BoM and have BoM quotes.

How do I know they are James Trimm's articles? I saw them posted by James Trimm on the Book of Mormon Truth forum and recognized them. The following few examples are Sandra's pages, with the corresponding Book-of-Mormon-Truth post. I copied both her site and the forum post, in the event that they pulled their material. They did pull it. Sandra no longer has the original site and the posts were deleted from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Book-Of-Mormon-Truth/ . I did not know how to copy a webpage in html though, so it is the content, not the original.

copy Rod of Iron

copy post 1883

This one was in 4 parts, which Sandra put all together as one study. Here site has been removed, as well as the original posts being deleted from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Book-Of-Mormon-Truth/ forum. Unfortunately I did not know how to save to html then and only got the content.

copy What is the Torah

copy 1712, 1713, 1710, 1708

Now, James could say that he did not know that she was posting his writings, but I doubt it. Sandra advertised her site on his sites, told him she would post a link to it, and what it would be about. James, like I did, would have gone to see exactly what she was posting, just like he checks mine, I have been told. :) He would have recognized his writings and without the disclaimer at the top. James would have surely told her to get his material off, had he wanted to. There is a reason that his name is not at the bottom of the studies involving the BoM.

I just found a post (6/12/03) that Sandra wrote, in reply about James Trimm and his BoM connections. In it she states: "James Trimm wrote all articles at my site that currently have no
authors name beside them.

Sis Sarah
http://www.WayofPeace.org "

Sandra's post and new site address

Sandra wrote to me, several times this fall and asked me to take my website down. She told me that it hindered James being able to teach about the BoM. In one of the final calls, she told me that I was fighting against YHWH and that James Trimm was the "Nasi" of all the people, whether they knew it or not. Sandra could deny it, but I also have another source, where she said the same thing. When SANJ was trying to restructure, recently, Steve Heiliczer became the nasi of the SANJ Beit Din. When the disputes broke out about statements of faith, Sandra wrote to an email to Luana Fabry, stating that James was the "Nasi" of the people. The email went through several people before it arrived to me. Since the email was not sent directly to me, I wrote Luana and asked her permission to deal with it, and she gave it. Here is the text of the email.

Nasi email

These subjects are too persistent to be mere coincidence. James Trimm continues to tell the Messianic community one thing, but to the BoM community, he makes sure, repeatedly, that they do not think that he is against the BoM.

Aramaic forum debate on Rabbi Yosef/James Trimm

Another outbreak of the Book of Mormon connection with Trimm occured at Steve's AramaicNT site. The site is about the Aramaic origins of the NT. He has a forum and when I was made aware of it, I peeked to see what Trimm was up to. Surprise, Sandra was there too and again a dispute broke out. Most of the posts were deleted, but I got a few before it was done. BTW, Joe is one of James Trimm's beit din members.

Joe post 68

Joe post 74 Since Sandra's post was already gone, you can see her post stating that James Trimm is Rabbi Yosef in the reply protion of Joe's post.

Joe post 75 Joe tries to distance any connection of James Trimm and Rabbi Yosef. Again, Sandra's post is gone and has to be viewed in the reply portion.

Joe post 81 Sandra is pointing out that the disputes that Joe has are those views of James Trimm, a fellow SANJ member.



Those that share the same views of syncretism, a mixing of Judaism, Messianism, kabbalah, Christianity, Essenism, Mormonism, etc, will continue to cover for James Trimm as he spews his false teachings.