Subject: Fw: James Trimm, Kathy issues
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:52:56 -0700
From: "Grafted-In Ministries" <billnjok@olypen.com>
To: "Kathyn" <purnhrt@flash.net>, "James Trimm" <jstrimm@home.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: Grafted-In Ministries
To: Schmuel
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: James Trimm, Kathy issues
Hi Schmuel
Long time....no hear from. Thanks for your note but the issue regarding
Trimm/Kathryn is a "closed one" as far as we are concerned. Your opinion
is as valid as ours but this topic is "closed" as far as we are concerned and
is not open for "debate" or "conversation".
Thanks again for your note.
Bill and Jo
----- Original Message -----
From: Schmuel
To: Bill and Jo Kuhlmeyer
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:19 AM
Subject: James Trimm, Kathy issues
Hi,
I am reading the James Trimm stuff and wish to make some comments....
*******************************************************************************
1. Rabbi Yosef and related issues..
"We find James Trimm's use of the pseudonym
of Rabbi
Yosef not inappropriate on the Mormon
forums within James
Trimm's frame of reference. "
I think you ALMOST TOTALLY overlooked
the true issues here..
Remember the "real issues, the pseudo-issues
and the non-issues"
As I understand the issue was not the
USE of the pseudonym
(I don't think that was ever an issue)
but
that Rabbi Yosef actually declared belief
in the BOM....
This has still not been addressed (James
considers it a private
issue, for him and the Beit Din and Yom
Kippur, while acknowledging
that it is "questionable" (private conversation
on IRC))
I will be reluctant to trust a leader
that creates personas
that are irreconcilable to the faith..
and speak spiritual
falsehoods (ie the "truth" of the BOM)
(Two other issues were the lying about
it (confirmed)
and the attacks upon the lady
in Colorado and Kathy
(eg. "anti-semite", unbalanced
etc) ...
The second is confirmed (below) and the last is ignored by you
"When confronted...his initial denial
was a lie and a
Torah-observant Bet-Din should have
sanctioned him for this. "
"Kathryn was informed by James' Bet-Din
that they found no fault
with his actions and for her to say
that they did not investigate
the charge is a lie and she
owes restitution to James Trimm. "
***********
This is a strong accusation by you against
Kathy..
Therefore I ask you for..
1) The dates and nature of
the investigation..
2) Who and how was the investigation
conducted..
3) The issues of the investigation..
4) Any public details or statement
of the investigation...\
5) who was contacted by the
investigators ?
Would you consider a couple of phone calls
between Beit Din
members an "investigation"
and therefore accuse Kathy of
a "lie" ?? sheesh...
Do you find any incongruity between the
fact that this supposed
investigation found "no fault"
yet
1) You say above James denial was
a lie
2) James, as Rabbi Yosef, advocated
the BOM
3) At least two women were defamed
(they were apologized to on
some issues, especially the anti-semitic charge)
4) Much of the history/archives was
eliminated.
*******************************************************************************
2. The Doctorate issue
You ignore the "fishiness"
of the diploma, the history of the institution
that granted it, the
lack of even one teacher referenced
Why ? To me, to
ignore this issue is astounding, and I lose faith
in your abilities,
especially since you are so quick to call folks
"liars" ...
*******************************************************************************
3. The Yeshiva Issue
A complicated
issue, and I agree this is the muddiest of all ..
It is too
big for my morning time now :-)
Perhaps will
be saved to a secondary post, if you feel we are
touching on pertinent issues..
******************************************************************************
4. The response of Jame's
I
disagree with you here, I feel his response was mostly
just
to attack and obfuscate..
Ironically,
the only exception you offer is the Yeshiva info on the
websites..
(changed somewhat by James and MBI both)
largely
because it was likely to either deceive students or lead
to
action by the authorities..
(eg.
MBI changed there reference to the "accrediting agency"
that they are involved with...changed two of their faculty members
to "in memory of", put other disclaimers in)
Many other
issues were and still not have been properly dealt
with..
******************************************************************************
5. The Investigation
I touch on that above,
I hope you can answer those questions..
I am on all the Nazarene
forums, have met one current
Beit Din
member, I think to call what they did an "investigation"
.. and then you accuse
Kathy of lying..
is disassembling
the english language..
******************************************************************************
6. Beit Din issues
Will pass for now..
******************************************************************************
"She needs to recognize that James
Trimm has solid legal grounds to bring a
suit for
(1) Defamation of character as well
as
(2) slander and liable against her and
that the courts would probably
award him punitative damages. "
EXCUSE ME, are you a lawyer ???
btw no word "punitative"..
only punitive
******************************************************************************
Bill, so far I am saddened by how you have
thrown out
1) accusations
2) legal "advice"
Based on what seems like a very shoddy research job by you...
BTW, I consider myself a friend of the
Nazarene Forum and of
James, and a fairly frequent
poster over two years..
We have been allies on some issues (I
brought up the "Dan Israel"
book a year before Jame's made it an issue
at the Unity Conference)
Enuf for now... I felt I had to rush a
preliminary note out to you...
**************************************************************************
Steven in New York..
(able to discuss more on IM, email or
phone...)
I
Schmuel
ICQ #12840631
AOL-Praexus
schmuel@bigfoot.com
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