False Witness

Subject: Exonerated by Grafted-In Ministries
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:27:52 -0500
From: purnhrt <purnhrt@flash.net>
To: billnjok@olypen.com

Shalom b'YHWH
Bill and Jo, this is what I spoke of. I know how James works. He cant
defend himself and he wont be honest, but he will use poorly written
conclusions to try and make him look better. Either you make a complete
retraction, publically, or I will, line by line refuting it, which will
not look good for you. I told you if James did this that I would not sit
back and be lied about. He is increasing his lies and slander and is now
including your conclusion as part of it.  I sent you rebuttals to just
two of your points. I now have to publically refute your conclusions and
accusations of my being a liar and I have a lot of evidence to back this
up.  The decision is yours as to what I do next, as to how you are going
to be viewed in all this. Do you apologize for your accusations and
admit false information and a poor investigation, or do you look
unrighteous for stating false quotes and standing by them, when I have
overwhelming proof to show you are the liar that you accused me of? You
wrote that Jo witnessed my "lashon hara" at your web site. How is it
going to look when I show that I have several e-mails stating why I
wanted to post the state letter, asking for permission, explaining my
tahorah e-mail address, asking if it would be better to re-register
under purnhrt, sending a copy of what I wanted to post and getting
permission to do so? I did not commit Lashon hara or lie. You repeatedly
called me a liar and yet refused to answer my questions about your false
quotes, which I was hoping was just a misunderstanding of yours, that I
could easily clarify. Instead you write back and say you will not debate
this issue. That  is not righteous and is definitely not in accordance
with Thorah. You have appeared as a witness and cast the first stone,
but your testimony was false.  Shalom, Kathryn

Subject: Exonerated by Grafted-In Ministries
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:27:30 -0700
From: James Trimm <jstrimm@home.com>


It is with much thought that I have determined to forward the email
which follows to you all.  After all in this email it is stated that
certain of my actions were "stupid" and my initial evasive answers to
the issue (the ones given before Kathryn actually started her campaign)
are even refered to as a "lie".   And while I think the word "lie" was a

bit harsh I do admit that it was a bit stupid of me not to come forward
with the detailed explanation in the first place rather than just give
evasive answers.  The evasive answers were really just intended to keep
a long story short.   Thus, instead of stating that I had been posting
under alliases on Mormon and Muslim lists and explaining WHY I had been
posting messages on Mormon and Muslim lists I had initially just made a
statement to the effect that I do not advocate the Book of Mormon or the
Quran and am not a Mormon or a Muslim.  That statement was true, but
evaded the longer more involved

It should also be stated that Grafted-In Ministries is a somewhat
different ministry than SANJ and there are obviously disagreements as to
how a beit-din should operate and whether Messianics and Nazarenes
should make use of the term "Rabbi" at all.

Despite these facts I thought it best to forward a copy of the findings
Grafted-In Ministries to you.  It should be noted that I do not know
and Jo Kuhlmeyer and that they were introduced to this matter by Kathryn
who sought their judgement.

So why am I forwarding an email that says I did something stupid?
(And yes I admit it was stupid of me not to fully explain matters much

Because Bill and Jo Kuhlmeyer also, after a very complete independnt
investigation of the facts, determined that I was NOT GUILTY of even ONE
of Kathryn's charges.  And because this was a surprise to them.  When
they first started recieving emails from Kathryn their initial
reaction was that I WAS guilty.  In fact they had blocked me from
joining or posting on either of the lists they moderate because they had
determined that it appeared I was guilty of the things Kathryn had
accused me of.  It was not until they completed their investigation that
they unblocked me, having determined that I was NOT GUILTY of ANY of
Kathryn's charges.

They have stated that anyone may cite their report as long as it is
in its entirety and not edited or abridged.  I have edited only the
so as to make the report easier to read.

I forward their entire report below:

From: "Grafted-In Ministries" <billnjok@olypen.com>
To: <tahorah@netscape.net>, "Kathyn" <purnhrt@flash.net>,
         "James Trimm" <jstrimm@home.com>
Subject: Kathryn/Trimm/Bet-din
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 18:29:18 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400

     First, before we begin, let us assure all  that only IF you have a
month of 24 hour days, can you possibly have the  time to hear about the
stupid things that the Kuhlmeyers have done in their  lives...errors
they have made.  Some of these things they have no excuse  for...they
knew better.  And not all of these situations are OLD  situations...some
of them are recent.  But those who have proven themselves  to be truly
"family" and have consequently been gifts from the HOLY ONE for our
lives have loved us through them all and most importantly, they were
always  ready to believe the best of us.  Yes, more than once, to our
shame, this  hard-headed Seminole and his red-headed wife have given
power to the "man of  flesh" that we wrestle against and have ignored
their words of counsel.....but these "family members" have continued to
believe only the best of us. Eventually we lived up to some of their
expectations.   :-)

When this matter of Trimm/Kathryn/Bet-Din  was brought to our attention,
we were blessed by the fact that we don't and  wouldn't know any of the
principals were we to bump into them on the  street.  We did not WANT to
become involved in the matter but felt, as  believers, that we were
COMMANDED to.  What follows is OUR opinion derived  after MUCH study and
prayer and much time reviewing the documents on Kathryn's  webpage, some
documents from James Trimm, a few email correspondences with  members of
his Bet-Din,  and questioning of witnesses as to their  assessment of
Kathryn's and James' character.   In all matters, both Kathryn and James
Trimm  are spoken highly of by the questioned witnesses as far as having

impressed  others that both of these two truly love their LORD and
desire to serve HIM and  only HIM.  We are convinced that this is the
situation. Only Kathryn  and James individually know whatever
personality deficits they might  individually possess but interestingly
enough, no one has questioned their  dedication to carrying out what
they perceive to be Yahweh's commands to us as  HIS people.  We have not
looked for witnesses as to the character of his  Bet-Din because we have
not chosen, as has James, to subject ourselves to their  authority;
therefore it is sufficient to us to ASSUME that they are people of  good

To summarize the situation as we understood  it; Kathryn brought charges
against James Trimm for fraud; to wit:   Kathryn claims that she brought
these  matters first to the attention of James Trimm, then to his
Bet-Din and when she  was not satisfied, brought them to the attention
of the BODY by emails to  Messianic congregational leaders as well as by
her website http://home.flash.net/~purnhrt/truth/   Kathryn's charges
against James Trimm,  summarized as we understand them are as follows:

1.  That James Trimm committed  fraud by appearing on various email
forums under the name of Rabbi  Yosef

2.  That James Trimm committed fraud by  claiming he has a doctorate
when in fact, his credentials are from  non-accredited sources.

3.  That James Trimm committed fraud by  "birthing" and encouraging a
Yeshiva that is an "illegal" entity and that as a  result many Yeshiva
students are being defrauded

4.  That when these situations were  brought to James Trimm's attention,
he accepted no culpability and made no  appropriate efforts to RESTORE.

5.  That when James Trimm's response  was less than she had hoped for,
Kathryn then took the matter to the James  trim's Bet-Din  Kathryn
submits that his Bet din made no investigation of the charges even
though she admits  that they "found" James Trimm "loosed" (not guilty as
charged) from the charges  against him.

6.  Kathryn submits that James Trimm's  Bet-Din is a "kangaroo court"
and is nothing more than a rubber stamp for James  Trimm and that she
was therefore justified in bringing this matter before the  BODY.

These are the basic issues as we understand  them and what follows is
our opinion based on the investigation we have  done.

Issue #1   That James Trimm committed fraud by  appearing on various
email forums under the name of Rabbi  Yosef   We have found that the
pseudonym in and of itself does not constitute fraud  anymore than does
Kathryn's pseudonym of tatorah or our occasional one of  unworthy2die4.
Pseudonyms and even aliases are expected; even encouraged  under some
circumstances on the web.   On the other hand, we see James Trimm's
posts as Rabbi Yosef as indicative  of a greater problem within the
Messianic community in feeling that they  have to achieve some sort of
recognition for a personal body of knowledge  so as to achieve a degree
of "respectability".  Undoubtedly this is due to  the fact that the
Orthodox community Yeshivas who heretofore had been the ones  to award
degrees do not recognize anything "Messianic".  Only DURING and  after
the Babylonian
captivity, did the term "Rabbi" come into "vogue" within  Israel.  Prior
to this, the  teacher was known to his students in a  personal way and
there was no issue of "accreditation" by the community at  large.
response to the clergy-laity controversy of "Christianity"  appears to
the term "Rabbi".   We find James Trimm's use of the pseudonym of Rabbi
Yosef not  inappropriate on the Mormon forums within James Trimm's frame
of reference.  We find James' use of pseudonym of Rabbi Yosef on his
own forums as a "means of evangelizing"  as "stupid". Stupid is not
fraud however.    When confronted...his initial denial was a lie and a
Torah-observant  Bet-Din should have  sanctioned him for this.
ESPECIALLY should "teachers" be held to a higher standard.   Kathryn was
informed by James' Bet-Din that they found no fault with  his actions
and for her to say that they did not investigate the charge is a lie
and she owes restitution to James Trimm.

  Issues #2 and #3  2.  That James Trimm committed fraud by  claiming he
has a doctorate when in fact, his credentials are from  non-accredited
   3.  That James Trimm committed fraud by  "birthing" and encouraging a
Yeshiva that is an "illegal" entity and that as a  result many Yeshiva
students are being defrauded   Because a non-elected, non-representative
bureaucratic body assumes  authority of accreditation over all
educational intuitions within a given area  (Texas) does not negate the
fact that this country is a republic, not a  democracy,  and regulations
including bureaucratic regulations of any type  against a "religious
body" are patently illegal on the part of the bureaucratic  body.  This
is a matter of the constutional law of the United States.   There is no
evidence that would suggest that James Trimm used his earned  doctorate
in any matter intended to deceive; i.e.; apply for a position at a
State-supported institution claiming that he had credentials that they
recognized as accredited.   There is no evidence that would suggest that
James Trimm intended to  deceive the Yeshiva students and Kathryn was so
informed byJames trim's  Bet-Din.    For her to claim contrary is a lie
as is evidenced even on her own webpages  and she owes restitution.
Further, the most basic of high school civics covers matters of
constutional law as does a web search done for accreditation.  If
Kathryn  is capable of doing the research she has done to find
bureaucratic entities to  file complaints
against James Trimm, she was surely capable of checking out this  matter
of constutionality.  In our opinion, Kathryn has committed Lashon  hara
against James Trimm and owes restution.

Issue#4  That when these situations were brought to  James Trimm's
attention, he accepted no culpability and made no appropriate  efforts
to RESTORE.   We see evidence to the contrary; that is; we see evidence
that James  Trimm has made clarifications on his website so as to make
clear the "accreditation" issue.

Issue #5  That when James Trimm's response was less  than she had hoped
for, Kathryn then took the matter to the James Trimm's  Bet-Din.
Kathryn submits that his Bet din made no investigation of the  charges
even though she admits that they "found" James Trimm "loosed" (not
guilty as charged) from the charges against him.   Kathryn's own
webpages show the lie in her allegation that his Bet din made  no
investigation of the charges.  She owes restitution to James Trimm and
his Bet-Din

Issue #6  Kathryn submits that James Trimm's Bet-Din  is a "kangaroo
court" and is nothing more than a rubber stamp for James Trimm  and that
she was therefore justified in bringing this matter before the  BODY.
The whole purpose of a Bet-Din is to try matters of law, render
judgments  and communicate those judgments to interested parties.
Although they appear to have investigated these charges of Kathryn's,
the people serving on James Trimm's Bet-Din have a great deal to learn
about communication.  In our experience, their communication skills are,
to put it kindly, deficient. Having deficient communication skills does
not however make a body a "kangaroo  court" or "a rubber stamp for James
Trimm". Kathryn appears to have committed Lashon Hara against both James
Trimm and his Bet-Din in this regard and owes restitution.

Our findings in summary:  To have a viable  Bet-Din modeled on a Hebraic
model, the initial court must be (1) the Bench of  Three in the
synagogue (2) over which is the Bench of Twenty-one in the  district
(3) over which is the Bench of Seventy-one -- the Sanhedrin in  the Holy
Temple; the judges who "sit in Moses' seat."  Anything less cannot  be
construed to be a viable Bet-Din.  IF James Trimm's Bet-Din answers to
a  Bench of twenty-one, it was the obligation of the local Bet-Din to
tell Kathryn  and direct her to the appropriate place to file her
appeal.  We have not  seen evidence that this was done.  If James
Trimm's Bet-Din is just a body  to whom he chooses to hold himself
accountable, then it would probably be better  named something less
confusing.   In either case, when the charges Kathryn made against James
Trimm did not  elicit the desired effect (supposedly, one of sanctions
against James Trimm),  Kathryn apparently felt justified in taking this
matter before the BODY of  believers.   We have been impressed by the
witnesses who have spoken for Kathryn's character as a woman who
attempts to operate in a GODly fashion and we can understand why, coming
out of "church-anity", she would feel that this matter of  Trimm/Kathryn
should go before the Body of Believers in accordance with Matthew  18.
We are equally impressed however, with those witness who have  counseled
with her advising her that her website and continued emailings to the
BODY of Messianic believers is Lashon hara. Jo herself has seen Kathryn
commit lashon Hara against James Trimm on the IsraeLight forum.   It is
our opinion that Kathryn finds James Trimm's Bet-Din lacking.   That in
and of itself is ok....we do too.  She has the same choice we  do....to
not subject herself to their authority.

  While we have no doubt that Kathryn started off with the purest of
heart and best of intentions, it seems to us that at present she has
forgotten that as  a claimer of the covenant promises,

(1) she has an OBLIGATION to believe the  best of her brothers and
sisters even when their actions make you wonder AND

(2)  She has an obligation to never bring a brother or sister to public
shame.   We find that she has been deficient in both these areas.

She needs to  recognize that James Trimm has solid legal grounds to
bring a suit for

(1)  Defamation of character as well as

(2) slander and liable against her and that  the courts would probably
award him punitative damages.

In our opinion,  Kathryn needs to make restitution and thanksgiving to
James Trimm.   Because this is the season of introspection and
restitution and repentance,  we will allow Kathryn fellowship on our
forums until after the HOLY DAYS are  over.  However, if she has not
attempted to restore James Trimm and the  members of his Bet-Din and has
not taken down her slanderous website immediately  after or before
Sukkot, she will be disfellowshipped from our forums and we  will
mention her name no more.

    Bill and Jo Kuhlmeyer Graftedin@saintmail.net

guard you. YHWH  make His face to shine upon you and show you favor.
YHWH lift up His face  upon you and give you shalom

Study Torah with SANJ Mitvah Club

YHWH bless you and guard you. YHWH make His face to shine upon you and
show you favor. YHWH lift up His face upon you and give you shalom.