Subject: Re: 6 steps
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:00:12 -0500
From: purnhrt <purnhrt@flash.net>
To: Michael Detwiler <mijoy@worldnet.att.net>
References:
1 , 2 , 3
, 4
SHalom b'YHWH
Michael, you made me laugh so hard about your statement, "I
am just as "arrogant" as ever, Kathryn.
However, you are not being played with. I am the
bad cop, really. I dont know who the good cop is . . . "
It still makes me laugh.
YOu did not answer my question of if y'all just ignored
them or deleted them, but I will list them
anyway. I will be honest, I dont put much hope in this Beit Din.
The first is on the forum post, 39934, in which James Trimm
says that my e-mail to the forum members
was spam and to contact my ISP and report it. I read through the e-groups subject
of spam, what I was
doing was not spam. Also, by the definitions of spam, at the nazarene site,
I was not spamming.
Then James sends out his revised letter and really cuts
loose with the lies. "[Mrs. H's] and
"Kathryn's" material is filled with lies and half truths. " My material
is not filled with lies and half truths.
My evidence has been in complete documents. No lies or half truths at all.
"Kathryn (purnhrt@flash.net) is a liar. " I am not
a liar and all the material at the website proves that I am
not.
"She claims:
I received an e-mail from James Trimm
admitting
that he was Rabbi Yosef and participated at numerous
forums, including Mormon, Branch Davidian and Muslim,
under various names.
Well that is QUITE a distortion (even a lie) of the e-mail
I sent. The
e-mail I sent was carbon copied to all of the members of the SANJ beit-din so
it is not just my word
against hers. Below is an exact copy of the e-mail I sent to this woman
and carbon copied to the SANJ
beit-din members. When you read it you will see that she has TOTALLY distorted
and even lied about
what it said."
Not only is this a lie about his carbon copying y'all the
letter he sent to me, but his copy is not an exact
copy, which I have proved at my site and shown the differences. I have the original
and will e-mail it
again to show you the headers, dates and context. Also, he did clearly state
that he posted as Rabbi Yosef,
which he says you were aware of and you even said so in your e-mail to me. I
dod not lie or distort
anything.
"Furthermore it should be said that the SANJ forums are
unmoderated. The only reason Kathryn was
unable to post was that she was banned from all SANJ forums about a year ago
because of abuse and
anti-semitic posts. Thus her email address is filtered from all SANJ systems
automaticly. "
THis one contains several lies. First, I was never banned
from any SANJ forums a year ago. I only
participated at EliYah's and I was not banned from that one. Again, the evidence
is at my site, that I left
because of James Trimm, not because I was banned.
Also, my post was blocked, because of content. I have proof
at my site that I did not use my
purnhrt@flash.net address to post either the first, or the second time. I used
my sons for the first and got a
new address for the second, so there is no way that my original address being
blocked would have
prevented the posts from not going through.
Finally, I have never made any anti-semitic posts anywhere.
I have disagreed with James over what he
terms anti-semitic, I have disagreed with his smear tactics, I have disagreed
with his doctrine of who the
Beyth Yahudah and the Beyth Efrayim are, but I am not anti-semitic in the least
and my posts prove that.
"This Kathryn was one of a handful of people to support
the book on various lists that I was exposing it on. She became very angry
that Dan Israel was removed
from ISR as a result of my expose of the book. She soon attacked SANJ and the
Beit Din and began
posting material written by Chris Lingle. This surprised us, since we knew he
had no internet access at
the time, it seemed clear that she was personal friends with him.
This was not a surprise. When Lingle
apostasized we had heard that he had returned to his anti-semitic circles. "
I never supported the book and again, my posts prove it.
My contention with him was over his not
checking with Pete Vacca and Dan Chaput, over what they wrote, for colarification,
first. He just went to
all his lists and smeared them as anti-semites. I had spoken with Dan twice,
when I had ordered copies of
the ISR. At no time did he ever make any anti-semitic comments. He did speak
of Lost Tribes, but I haear
that even from James. He did speak of obseving Thorah, but did not agree that
Talmud was equal to
THorah. So I called him and asked him about the book. He also gave me Petes
number and I called him
and asked about his paper. Again, the smae thing. THese men were not speaking
against Jews and
promoting hate, but of Rabbinical Judaism practices that contradicted Thorah.
Pete sent me his speech and Dan his book. I typed up the
speech and the chapter 12 of Dans book and
offered them, at EliYah's forum, to anyone who wanted to see the whole writing,
to see the context of
what was written. It was clear from context that they had been misquoted. Something
James seems to
have a serious problem with, even quoting himself. I at no time advocated Dans
book, which I even
stated at the forum.
What I became upset about, was that James went to ISR and
sought to get Dan removed as the
distribuator of ISR's publications. Dan was doing that as a freewill offering.
He never received any money
or markup of the Scritpures that he distributed. I contacted ISR about what
was going on and asked them
to please check into this thoroughly, and not take James Trimms word for it.
Dan is still a distibutor for
them now, along with two other US distributors.
I never attacked SANJ and the Beit Din. What I did was ask
James, under what authority he was acting
under in all this. He said the Beit Din, so I asked about the Beit Din. He said
it was started by he and two
other men who appointed him as Nasi. So I asked who the two other men were.
After asking several
times, he finally named Chris Lingle and Eric Sanquist. So I got in touch with
a friend that had mentioned
the studies of Chris Lingle and asked if they would pass on my phone number
or allow me to call them.
Chris sent his number and I called and asked about the origins of the Beit Din.
He informed me that he
did not vote James as Nasi and had even refused to be the Av. He said he even
had objected to the terms
Nasi and Av. So then I posted this up, in response to James saying that he was
appointed Nasi by him.
What I questioned was the authority of James Trimm to behave the way he was
and when he said
because he was Nasi, then I questioned that.
I never posted any material by Chris Lingle. James Trimm
is the only one I know of that has the material
of Chris Lingle posted.
No where does it seem clear that I was personal friends
with him. I even wrote in the post that I got the
number and called to confrim James Trimm's story. James is trying to make a
connect to further discredit
me. ANd he makes the first anti-semitic comment, which I am not.
"The information she posted by Lingle was packed with lies
and easy for Eric and I to disprove. " As I
said before, I never posted any of Lingles stuff. And James and Eric never easily
proved anything. In fact
James was having such a hard time with me, that he send a note out to his lists,
stating, " "The anti-semite
"Yahwists" (not all Yahwists are anti-semites) are giving me a hard time on
the Eliyah web-based
discusion group at: http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-
bin/forum/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true
They are DEFENDING Dan Chaput's anti Semitic book which
I have
been writing about. I would apreciate any help from any who feel a desire
to speak their Mind on the
issue.
Just go to the Home Page Discusion forum and look
at these
threads:..."
Eric was the only one to show up. He posted once and not
again. He did such a poor job as a back up,
that I wrote,
" Eric, So you are the back up. Welcome to the discussion.
Perhaps you would like to go back and read
an article that James sent out on one of
his lists.
Subject: [moedim] Intercalation
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:58:57 -0500
From: James Trimm
Reply-To: moedim@nazarene.net
To: moedim@nazarene.net
THE SECRET OF THE INTERCALATION
OF THE HEBREW CALENDAR
by James Trimm
HOW MANY TORAHS
"Before we can answer the issue of the intercalation of the
Hebrew calendar we must first understand another issue.
How many Torahs did Moses receive on Mt. Sinai? The
Torah says: These are the decrees, the ordinances,
and the TORAHS that YHWH gave, betwen Himself and the
Children of Israel, at Mount Sinai, through Moses. (Lev.
26:46)
This passage indicates that Moses received more than one
Torah on Mount Sinai. Most people know that Moses
received a Written Torah on Mount Sinai but few know that
Moses received an Oral Torah as well. When Moses received
the written Torah he also received an oral Torah which was a
companion to the written Torah. There is a great deal of
evidence to prove the existance of the Oral Torah that was
received with the written Torah."
"There are also many commands within the Written Torah
which cannot be kept without an Oral Torah to clarify
them:"
"All of these unclear statements in the written Torah without
an oral Torah while the Scriptures tell us that YHWH's
teachings to Israel have always been clear (Is. 45:19). The
written Torah without the Oral Torah is so unclear that it
simply could not be observed."
"Torah observance cannot be accomplished without the oral
Torah which has been passed from generation to generation
by the Jews but lost to Ephraim. Thus Paul writes:"
Perhaps you two would like to huddle up and determine
what is to be what, so that you don't contradict each other.
James is clearly saying that you cannot possible follow
Torah, without Talmud and that thee were two Torahs
(Toroth). Now, I know that the word Torah means
several things. It represnts the 5 books of Moshe ( the
Pentateuch), it represents the Law, HaTorah, it also means
teachings. You can have laws and teachings, that are plural.
But James is manipulating the Hebrew to justify the
authority of Talmud. If you do not feel that is is a grave
error, perhaps we could put it forth to the body of believers
and see if any of them buy into this flagrant rabbinicism.
Ironically Yahusha' also equates UNBELIEVING JEWS with
the offspring of HaSatan. Yahuchanan also called them a
brood of adders. THey were also called white washed
tombs that were filled with hypocrisy and torahlessness,
snakes, hypocrites, sons of Gei Hinnom, fools and blind
guides, murders of the nebiym of Yahuweh, etc. You want to
label terms like that as anti-semetic, then you label
Yahusha' HaMashiach Ben Yahuweh for being so.
Personally, I would rather keep company with Him, than
people that do not know how to put a reign on their tongue
or rightly divide the word of Yahuweh.
Dan quoted a few portions of Talmud. Perhaps even quoting
someones quote, I don't know, but those would not be the
portions that I would have chosen. I have whole passages,
not a few verses here and there, that obviously contradict
Torah. Now if you would like to debate Talmud verses
Torah, I can show you much more damning evidence
of the contradictions in Talmud. What Dan wrote was
peanuts compared to the weight of all that there is.
Young, impressionable followers reading that book, would
not seek out violence against Jews, because of the statements
made in it. What it would cause them to do, was to NOT be
seeking out organizations such as y'alls, that promote
Judaism and would not be pouring out money in support of
such. Perhaps that is the greater worry you fear. Lack of
support.
Arian nations or nazi's do not care about Torah and
following it. Which is what Dan stressed.
You wrote, "We are trying to reunite the house of Judah with
Ephraim, but some of Ephraim just wants to think it's better
than Judah and boasts continually. Some of Judah doesn't
want to accept Ephraim."
Since you and James use the same code words or lingo,
perhaps you could tell me, which James would not, just
what makes you think that the house of Judah is believing
Jews and the house of Ephraim is Goyim beleivers, but not
Jews. Where in Scripture do you get this belief from? I know
people that are of the house of Ephraim, they are called
Shomroniym - Samaritans to some. Literal descendants of
Ephraim. Some of them do not believe in Yahusha'
Hamashiach as the Ben Yahuweh. They, like some of the
unbelieving Yahudiym, are still waiting for Mashiach. They
are true house of Ephraim. Not this faddish game you
people are playing, sectioning the believers off into groups
for superiority.
Interestingly enough, Moses Gaster, a Jewish Rabbi in
England in the 1920's, wrote a book on them (Shomroniym)
and their history, even calling them the house of Ephraim
and saying that Ephraim needed to be united with the stick
of Yahudah, that both had a lot to learn from each other.
Funny that a Jewish Rabbi, a real one, would refer to
Ephraim as being the Shomroniym, where you people
are coming up with a whole nother grouping that cannot be
backed up by the Scriptures and I'm talking Tanak.
Now, you have brought Chris Lingle to public awareness. I
got in touch with him to confirm whose idea it was for the
Beit Din, which James statd he was a cofounder of. James
sent me an e-mail and said that he wanted the dicussion
private, which I kept it. YOU have now made it public and
once public, will involve Chris and others.
If you are just a board of elders, then you would all be able
to meet the criteria of elders that is listed in Timothy and
Titus, correct? And why would titles such as Nasi, when
Yahusha' is the Nasi, be necessary? Why try to pattern it
after a rabbinical Judaism order?
The reuniting of the two houses is of Yahuweh, you cannot
force or bring about in your timing, what Yahuweh wills. It
is based on the foundation of Yahuweh Himself, His Son
Yhausha', His True Torah. It is not of man to decide what is
to be done and who is of this work and who is outside it.
I disagree that those "Jews who call themselves Jews and are
not" are those of replacement theology, though granted, just
by saying you are Jewish does not make it so, even for those
that say they are of Jewish descent.
That verse is one to the Qehillah in Smurna. The one in the
letter to the Qehillah in Philedelphia, sheds more light on
who is of this "Synagogue of Satan". Revelation 3:8,9, " 'I
know your deed - observe, I have set before your face an
open door, which man does not have the power to shut, that
you have diminished strength, yet you have guarded My
Word, and did not cover up My Name. See, I am giving
up those of the Keneseth of HaSatan, who say they are
Yahudiym and are not, but lie. See, I am making them come
and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved
you.' "
That word for cover up, is the same as the lid on the Mercy
Seat. Basically, to put a lid on His Name. The Yahudiym and
their Rabbinical halacha did that. These are unbelieving
Yahudiym that He is discussing here. Those that were
circumcised in flesh, but not in heart.
THere was no replacement theology to warn about then, just
physicalYahudiym that did not acknowledge Yahusha' as
Ben Yahuweh and Ha Mashaich, who killed the nebiyiym,
and made a den of thieves of His Father's Beyth, who
released a criminal and had Yahusha' executed, just as
Kepha accused them of, then had Stephan stoned after he
accusd them also of murdering the nebiyiym and the
Righteous One, killed Yaaqob Tsaddik, and attacked Shaul
on his journeys. You cannot begin to tell me that these same
unbelieving Yahudiym, that Yahusha' chastised repeatedly,
were not those of the Keneseth HaSatan.
Yahusha' stressed that those that believed in Him were His
brothers and sisters. It does not matter if they were of
Hebrew birth or were Goyim, they are now in the
Household of Yahuweh, if they turn from their sins to
Yahuweh, believe in His Son Yahusha', and are immersed in
His Name and do His mitswoth. These are the
requirments for salvation. Nowhere does it say that if you
were born Jewish, that you are saved.
If you are here to defend James, then you have done no
better job than James did. Neither of you are speaking Torah
and I wonder why. My whole point of this thread was to
refute James Trimm's wholesale accusation of those of us,
that did not agree with Talmud=TOrah, the practices of
Judaism, or his opinions, as being anti-semetic YHWHists.
You have done nothing to change my opinion of his
teachings, in fact, you wrote nothing that he did not, and just
put it under another name.
You did not clarify what a Jew is by Scripture, you did to
define the house of Yahudah and the house of Ephrayim by
Scripture, you did not answer any of the questions that I had
concerning the legitimacy of James Trimms authority.
You HAVE repeated what he said, except contradicting him
on the Talmud issue. You have taken a private matter and
now made it public. ANd you have brought up a very good
point about the board of elders. Since you equate yourselves
as elders, then you would have to pass the test of elders.
That will be interesting.
I look forward to your response, to see what your answers
you have from SCRIPTURE.
Shalom, Kathryn"
James then continues his lies in his revised letter:
"In short this woman is NOT the objective source she claims to be. She
is a hard core anti-semite who
believes that those of us that are Jews are actually unredeemable seed of Satan.
She is in league with
anti-semites like Dan Israel and at least at one time has been in league with
Lingle. Beware of this
woman. She could be capable of ANYTHING. "
Michael, you can check all my posts during that time, which
I have on my site, or you can go to EliYah's,
and see the Echad provate forum that EliYah moved all this to. I at no time
make any such statement. I
am not an anti-semite of any degree, much less hardcore. I am not in league
with any anti-semites. And I
was not in league with Chris Lingle. All of the evidence of this is at my site,
including the letter to Lingle
and my activites showing that I am not anti-semitic.
The only truthful statement by Trimm of me, was to beware of me, that I am capable of anything.
The lies do not stop with this e-mail. James then sends
out an e-mail to his lists, stating that I have
contradicted myself, first saying that I do not know him, then saying that I
knew him last year. I sent a
rebuttal letter out, showing the truth.
"Shalom b'YHWH
For those of you who received this message, I hope you can read better
than James Trimm. I never said that I did not know James Trimm. I said that
I did not know Rabbi Yosef.
Maybe his ability to read is not the
question, but that he so identifies as Rabbi Yosef, that he cant
distinguish between James Trimm and Rabbi Yosef, when it is written.
Here is my quote from the following post:
">The problem with this situation is a matter of proof, is it not? I do
>not know [Mrs. H.] , nor do I know Rabbi Yosef. I have not even read
>the Book of Mormon. But my curiosity began when I heard a plea from a
>woman begging for an investigation to prove the truth. That to me
sounded
>like something to look into, so I did. Remember I said earlier, that
I
>value truth and honesty as righteousness. That is
the
>reason that I spent hours pouring over this and several other forums
>related here. Here, Adam Bernay and any other person that wanted
>proof is the proof."
As to exchanging Lashon Hara, he is the only one slandering.
I have
simply stated the truth to defend his slander. First involving [Mrs. H.] , then
when he said I was a hardcore anti-semite, liar, etc.
Stating a truth to defend an untruth is not Lashon Hara, it is Thorah.
YHWH does not honor slander. Mishley 6:16-19, " These six YHWH hates, and seven
are hateful to His
nafesh. Proud eyes, a lying tongue, and hands shedding innocent blood. A heart
devising plans of
wickedness, feet hurrying to run to evil. A false witness who breathes
out lies, and one sending out strife
between brothers." Shalom, Kathryn
http://home.flash.net/~purnhrt/truth/"
These Michael, are the lies that James has stated about
me and needs to apologize for and make
retractions, for the statements were all false. As I told him in my e-mail to
him, when he mentioned
reconciliation, that I want I full apology and complete retractions of his lies,
on the forum and to all his
list. That I will not accept an apology such as he gave Pete Vacca last year.
If you are not familiar with his
apology to Pete Vacca, one of the men that he went on an anit-semite smear campaign
against, then here
it is.
"Pete, I likewise apologize if I misrepresented you as being
an anti-Semite. I believe that your remarks
came out as anti-Semitic statements but that they were not intended to
be. Thank you for your apology.
James Trimm "
THere was no "if" or "misrepresented" about it. He blatantly
and repeatedly called him an anti-semite.
WHich could have been avoided, had he simply called him, as a brother, to talk
with him about his
terms, in the first place. When I asked him why he did not do this, he said
that he didnt have to.
So you can see Michael, I am unwavering in this. I will
accept nothing less, and I deserve nothing less. All
the e-mails that I have recieved from numerous people who have taken the time
to check into this, are all
in agreement, that I am justified in my position.
I ahve been asked by numerous people that since James lied
in the situations with me, they want to know
the situation with the [H's]. I at first believed that [Mrs. H.] was due an
apology for the slander against
her for the statements that James Trimm was Rabbi Yosef adovocating the BoM.
I no longer believe this. I
believe that the [H's] are due an apology for much more and a reversal of the
Beit
Din decision against them.
THese are my grievances. If you truly view me as an achothiy,
then achiy, defend my name from the lies
spoken against it, as the sons of Yaaqob defended their sister Diynah, from
the sin committed against her,
and remove this reproach against me. Shalom, Kathryn