Note: The beliefs expressed on these pages are not necessarily my own. EliYah

  Forums at EliYah's Home Page
  Echad
  Unity Conference, a Jewish view (Page 1)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search


Old Forum | New Forum
The Main Site (excluding Scripture & Forums)
Search:

Disclaimer


Search/Read Scriptures | Enter Chat Room | Study Tools
This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2  next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Unity Conference, a Jewish view
James Trimm
Member

Posts: 339
Registered: Oct 98

posted 08-12-1999 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Trimm     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote

All,

Well I am about to hit the road for home and should be there in a couple of days.

I thought I would first post my own thoughts on the Unity conference.

This conference was truely a mixed bag from a Nazarene/Jewish perspective.

Saturday morning a paper was presented which had been written by Pete Vacca of Rocheport, MO which was very anti-Semitic. I quoted from the paper:

"...But that's typical of the Jews. They never accept what Yahweh says.
They always try to make it say something else... I have a problem with
just about everything the Jews do. Today's Jews are Talmud Jews and
not Torah Jews. They are steeped in traditions, not truth."

The next day Dan Chaput of RI who is thre US distributor for the Scripture Research Association South African Sacred Name Bible presented a paper on economics and followed this by promoting from the poteum his book CHRISTIANITY UNMASKED which was written under the name "Dan Israel". Chapter 12 of this book is his anti-semitic slam on the "Jewishness of Yashua" movement. The book indicates that this movement is a "manipulation and deception" and that todays Jews are the synagogue of Satan claiming to be Jews when we are not. the chapter is filled with the most vile of anti-semitic propaganda rehashed including a Talmud passage taken out of context so as to imply that Jews advocate sodomizing young children under the age of nine.

Several times during the confernce I was confronted to the side by anti-semites giving me a hard time.

I returned to learn that another anti-Semite has burst into a Jewish day care center whith an automatic firearm spraying gunfire. The gunman said it was a wakeup call to the country to start killing Jews.

I must add that the hosting organization did not seem to be in the anti-Semite camp but did not do enough to discourage this either.

OK now the good side. I was allowed to wear my kippah when speaking which I had been warned had not been allowed in the past. Also my message about Jewish roots was well received. I quoted Ezkl 37:15-19; Rom. 11:16-26 and Zech. 8:23 to demonstrate that the reunion of the two houses will involve Ephraim turning to and coming over to Judah. Although it was reportred to me that one person got up, mutterred "I don't have to sit here and listen to this" and left, overall it was well received and I was not hammered by anti-Semites when I opened for questions.

Overall it seemed to me that there were two factions there. An anti-Semite group, a "Jewish Roots" group and another group who seemed unaware that the issue existed.

I recommend for future events that the motto be "The only thing we won't tolerate is intolerance"

Also I thank Samuel Graham for permitting me time to speak and for the meals and for putting me up in the guest house.

I made a lot of new friends and there were a lot of non-anti-Semites there.
Moreover I was impressed that the Assembly of Yahweh in Eaton Rapids (which hosted the event) was more in the Jewish roots camp and not in the anti-Semite camp. I believe they are truly ready to take hold. Perhaps this will begin the reunion of Israel (Eprhraimite Yahwists) and Judah (Nazarene Judaism).

While I am all for Unity there can be NO PLACE WHATSOEVER for anti-Semitism in Ephraimite Yahwism if they are to take hold (Zech. 8:23) and be joined to Judah/Nazarene Judaism (Ezkl 37:15-19)and be fed by the root (Rom. 11:16-26).

There is NO PLACE for boasting against the natural branches in this olive tree.

I would call upon Ephraimite Yahwists to eradicate Anti-Semites like Dan Chaput/"Israel" and Pete Vacca from their midst if they desire true reconciliation.

I propose a joint conference between Nazarenes and Ephraimite Yahwists with alternating speakers and lost of fellowship time as a stepping stone to reunion. I am thinking about having it in Denver this winter.

James Trimm

IP: Logged

shlameal
Member

Posts: 270
Registered: Feb 99

posted 08-12-1999 04:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shlameal     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote

Are you sure you don't wanna say "anti-semitic" just one more time? It didn't evoke enough emotion in me, please once more for the record.

[i]shlameal[ite].

IP: Logged

Mikha'el
Junior Member

Posts: 1
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 08-12-1999 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mikha'el     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
How about Kahane Chai? Does that envoke a little more emotion? Remember - NEVER AGAIN.

------------------
"Everything in the world-whatever is and whatever happens-is a test designed to give you freedom of choice. Choose wisely." Rav. Nachman of the Breslov Hasidim.

IP: Logged

shlameal
Member

Posts: 270
Registered: Feb 99

posted 08-13-1999 05:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shlameal     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote

Mikha'el,

You said:

NEVER AGAIN.
-
Strange how less than 5 years after the close fo WWII, the Zionist Jews were ravaging Palestinian villages and laying waste to them. Remember Deir Yasin? Have you even heard of this place? I doubt you have. Either way, no ethnic group has a monopoly on suffering, least of all the Jews, one only needs to read the Bible to find they've committed their fair share of atrocities.

I am not for forgetting anyones tragedy, only that we remember them in a more encompassing perspective.

[i]shlameal[ite].

IP: Logged

Kathryn
Member

Posts: 174
Registered: Sep 98

posted 08-17-1999 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kathryn     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I would like to post a rebuttal to James Trimm's slanderous accusations, against Pete Vacca and Dan Chaput. First off, Pete Vacca was not even there at the conference. He sent his speech, with another member of the Assembly, since he could not be there. Therefore, the paper was read, exactly as it was written and Pete could not explain, defend or correct any misconceptions, that listeners might have had.

Second, the the paper was on green ears verses the equinox, to determine the month of Abib. Pete Vacca's contention was with the Karaites determing of the month of Abib, in the manner they did this year. I am getting a copy of this paper, and any one who wants to know exactly what was read, can find out. Not quotes taken out of context, without questioning the author.

Which brings me to my third point, concerning James's slander of Pete. Pete told me that James Trimm and He have never even met. James is making comments about a man, on public forums and over listservers, when he does not even know him personally.

Concerning Dan, and the book Christianity Unmasked, again, Dan was not approached by James to clarify or question anything. They also have not met or spoken to each other.
Chapter 12 of this book, is about Judeo-Christianity. It states that the term is an oxymoron. Christianity is against Judaism, therefore you cannot use that term for believers of Yahuweh/Yhwhists. It is incongruous. Dan stated, not knowing if James read the whole book, that James took the parts that he might have read, out of context. The book is about Christianity, not Judaism. Chapter 12 also, defines Semetic. This involvs ALL the descendants of SHEM. That includes Aram, Ashshur, Persia, and since Abraham was Semetic, then Ishmael, would also be Semetic. THe term anti-semetic does not mean against Jews alone.

Both of these men stated that James did not contact them to talk with them before he publicly spread his slander. Both stated that he never came to them, as a brother in Yahuweh, about this matter. He went against Torah and slandered them.

Both of these men are Torah observant. THey follow True Torah. They walk in the ways of Yahuweh. They do make a distinction between that which is Torah of Yahuweh and that which is Talmud and Tradition of Judaism. They follow what is in Scripture. THis does not make them anti-semetic; anti- mens traditions, maybe, but not anti-semetic.

What I would like to know James, is why, having come from a unity conference, you sought to divide the Yhwhistic community in this fashion, by slandering men you have not even spoken to, on these matters?

IP: Logged

James Trimm
Member

Posts: 339
Registered: Oct 98

posted 08-17-1999 09:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Trimm     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Both Dan Chaput and Pete Vacca published their anti-Semitic statements. Pete's statements were exposed at the conference.
In both cases there is NO OBLIGATION on my part to deal privately in rebutting PUBLISHED material. I did not misunderstand Pete in fact I quoted from his paper verbatim.

As for Dan I will expose his material more in depth in a new spin-ff topic.

James Trimm

IP: Logged

James Trimm
Member

Posts: 339
Registered: Oct 98

posted 08-17-1999 10:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Trimm     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
With their permision I am posting this from the publishers of the ISR South African Scriptures:

From: "Wilhelm Wolfaardt"
To: "James Trimm"
Subject: Re: Dan Chaput
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:42:57 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211

Dear James

Thank you for this information. I wish to affirm on behalf of INSTITUTE FOR
SCRIPTURE RESEARCH, that we are pro-Israel and believe that both Yehudah and
Ephraim / Israel will be united under the banner of Yahushua haMashiach. We
will seriously look into these matters.

Wilhelm Wolfaardt
Chairman
Institute for Scripture Research

----- Original Message -----
From: James Trimm
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 1999 5:32 AM
Subject: Dan Chaput


>
> Please read: Involves Dan Chaput
>
> >From: jstrimm@swbell.net
> >Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:10:25 -0700
> >To: yahwist@nazarene.net
> >Subject: [yahwist] 1999 Unity Conference (a Jewish view)
> >User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.76
> >X-Mailer: www.eGroups.com Message Poster
> >Sender: owner-yahwist@nazarene.net
> >Reply-To: yahwist@nazarene.net
> >
> >
> >All,
> >
> >Well I am about to hit the road for home and should be there in a
> >couple of days.
> >
> >I thought I would first post my own thoughts on the Unity conference.
> >
> >This conference was truely a mixed bag from a Nazarene/Jewish
> >perspective.
> >
> >Saturday morning a paper was presented which had been written by Pete
> >Vacca of Rocheport, MO which was very anti-Semitic. I quoted from the
> >paper:
> >
> > "...But that's typical of the Jews. They never accept what Yahweh
> >says.
> > They always try to make it say something else... I have a problem
> >with
> > just about everything the Jews do. Today's Jews are Talmud Jews
> >and
> > not Torah Jews. They are steeped in traditions, not truth."
> >
> >The next day Dan Chaput of RI who is thre US distributor for the
> >Scripture Research Association South African Sacred Name Bible
> >presented a paper on economics and followed this by promoting from the
> >poteum his book CHRISTIANITY UNMASKED which was written under the name
> >"Dan Israel". Chapter 12 of this book is his anti-semitic slam on the
> >"Jewishness of Yashua" movement. The book indicates that this movement
> >is a "manipulation and deception" and that todays Jews are the
> >synagogue of Satan claiming to be Jews when we are not. the chapter is
> >filled with the most vile of anti-semitic propaganda rehashed including
> >a Talmud passage taken out of context so as to imply that Jews advocate
> >sodomizing young children under the age of nine.
> >
> >Several times during the confernce I was confronted to the side by
> >anti-semites giving me a hard time.
> >
> >I returned to learn that another anti-Semite has burst into a Jewish
> >day care center whith an automatic firearm spraying gunfire. The
> >gunman said it was a wakeup call to the country to start killing Jews.
> >
> >I must add that the hosting organization did not seem to be in the
> >anti-Semite camp but did not do enough to discourage this either.
> >
> >OK now the good side. I was allowed to wear my kippah when speaking
> >which I had been warned had not been allowed in the past. Also my
> >message about Jewish roots was well received. I quoted Ezkl 37:15-19;
> >Rom. 11:16-26 and Zech. 8:23 to demonstrate that the reunion of the two
> >houses will involve Ephraim turning to and coming over to Judah.
> >Although it was reportred to me that one person got up, mutterred "I
> >don't have to sit here and listen to this" and left, overall it was
> >well received and I was not hammered by anti-Semites when I opened for
> >questions.
> >
> >Overall it seemed to me that there were two factions there. An
> >anti-Semite group, a "Jewish Roots" group and another group who seemed
> >unaware that the issue existed.
> >
> >I recommend for future events that the motto be "The only thing we
> >won't tolerate is intolerance"
> >
> >Also I thank Samuel Graham for permitting me time to speak and for the
> >meals and for putting me up in the guest house.
> >
> >I made a lot of new friends and there were a lot of non-anti-Semites
> >there.
> >Moreover I was impressed that the Assembly of Yahweh in Eaton Rapids
> >(which hosted the event) was more in the Jewish roots camp and not in
> >the anti-Semite camp. I believe they are truly ready to take hold.
> >Perhaps this will begin the reunion of Israel (Eprhraimite Yahwists)
> >and Judah (Nazarene Judaism).
> >
> >While I am all for Unity there can be NO PLACE WHATSOEVER for
> >anti-Semitism in Ephraimite Yahwism if they are to take hold (Zech.
> >8:23) and be joined to Judah/Nazarene Judaism (Ezkl 37:15-19)and be fed
> >by the root (Rom. 11:16-26).
> >
> >There is NO PLACE for boasting against the natural branches in this
> >olive tree.
> >
> >I would call upon Ephraimite Yahwists to eradicate Anti-Semites like
> >Dan Chaput/"Israel" and Pete Vacca from their midst if they desire true
> >reconciliation.
> >
> >I propose a joint conference between Nazarenes and Ephraimite Yahwists
> >with alternating speakers and lost of fellowship time as a stepping
> >stone to reunion. I am thinking about having it in Denver this winter.
> >
> >James Trimm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >This list provided by SANJ sponsors: http://www.nazarene.net
> >SANJ is a non-profit organization
> >
> >
> James Trimm
> ==============================================
> He who seeks will not cease until he finds,
> and having found he will be amazed,
> and having been amazed he will reign,
> and having reigned he will rest.
> - The Goodnews according to the Hebrews
> ==============================================
> The Society for the Advancement of Nazarene Judaism:
> PO Box 471; Hurst, TX 76053; USA
> http://www.nazarene.net
> A nonprofit organization supported by freewill offerings
> Check out our e-mail discusion groups.
> ==============================================
> The International Nazarene Beit Din
> http://www.nazarene.net/beitdin
> ==============================================
> International Nazarene Congregation Directory
> http://www.nazarene.net/directory.htm?
>
>
>
>

IP: Logged

Perdieu/Kinney
Member

Posts: 60
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 08-19-1999 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Perdieu/Kinney     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Well well!
did you folks know that Sept. 5-6 MIA is
having there first international get together in Florida
and the Messianic Jews are meeting
and the Nazarenes are meeting.
The Ephraimite Yahwist are talking
and plain ole Judaism is now running across
the Earth just like the Christians were/are
doing. Do I have to give a list of churches ?
take a look in the yellow pages of any
phone book anywhere in the world and you will
see many.
I've said all that to say that here in
America we have some 165 million people with
a religion of their own. How many is that?
Well, HE SAID THAT I WILL BUILD ONE HOUSE
HALLELU YAH !!!

IP: Logged

James Trimm
Member

Posts: 339
Registered: Oct 98

posted 08-20-1999 12:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Trimm     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
FORWARDED WITH PERMISION:

>From: Seekutruth@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:17:11 EDT
>Subject: Nice Meeting you at the Unity Conference, James!
>To: jstrimm@swbell.net
>X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214
>
>Shalom, James!
> This is Larry Acheson, and we met at the Unity Conference. I am not sure
>if you remember who I am or not. I am from Plano, TX, which as I'm sure you
>know, is not all that far from Hurst!
> Your report on the Unity Conference was forwarded my way by Darrell
>Whitfield, and I would just like to very briefly state that your comments are
>quite accurate. You were very quick to point out anti-Semitic comments and
>insinuations of the same. This needs to be done at every possible
>opportunity. Instead, I was content to just sit back and allow you to be the
>"lone dissenter." I hope you can forgive me for not even making the least
>attempt to let you know that I was on your side. I was indeed rooting for
>you the whole time, but DUH! You would never have known it. For all you
>knew, I was opposed to your position. I do not like for people to guess
>where I stand, so if I would have had any horse sense I would have stood up
>to make SOME type of supportive remark instead of just sitting there like a
>bump on a log.
> I also had no problem with your wearing the kippah, especially given the
>gentle, yet humorous manner in which you explained yourself. I personally do
>not desire to wear the kippah, but do not believe that Yahweh is opposed to
>any male who chooses to wear one. In fact, I admire you for "daring to be
>different."
>
><>
>
>Although I was not a part of the hosting organization, I know that I myself
>did nothing to discourage the obvious Anti-Semitism as pointed out in the
>presentation regarding the tekufah. Please forgive me for not lifting a
>finger (or my voice) to join in your protest.
>
>You and I seem to have one thing in common that no one else there had, by the
>way. I think we both believe that the Messiah's name was "Yeshua" instead of
>"Yahushua." Am I correct in extrapolating this from a comment you made
>during your presentation? I am very interested in learning your logic on
>this issue.
>
>Well, it is now bedtime, so good night! Erev tov!
>In the love of Yahweh through Yeshua,
>Larry Acheson
>
>

IP: Logged

Wilhelm Wolfaardt
Junior Member

Posts: 1
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 08-20-1999 03:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wilhelm Wolfaardt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
ANTI-SEMITISM FORUM:

I write on behalf of the Institute for Scripture Research, which has been implicated due to the relationship between the ISR and Daniel Chaput.

Dan Chaput is the USA distributor of the ISR’s publications. He does not receive any remuneration for the work he is doing however. He is doing the work as a free-will offering.

The ISR is a South African Section 21 company, registered with the government as a non-profit organization. The ISR consist of a number of board directors, a chairman and secretary. According to the constitution of the Section 21 company, we have to give notice to all directors in writing if we wish to convey a meeting. For this reason it will take us at least 2 weeks before we can discuss and make any decisions regarding Dan Chaput’s involvement with the ISR.

We ask that you all be patient regarding this delicate but also serious matter. It is only fair that we consider all the options and accusations laid before us.

I trust that all the correspondence that went around because of Dan Chaput will not influence your good and fair judgement regarding the integrity of the Institute for Scripture Research. Our aims and goals are to bring the unadulterated Word of Yahuweh to the whole world.

Sincerely

Wilhelm Wolfaardt
Chairman
Institute for Scripture Research

IP: Logged

Mattityahu
Member

Posts: 298
Registered: Dec 98

posted 08-20-1999 09:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mattityahu     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
What's an Ephraimite Yahwist? Is is a gentile believer?

Shalom,
Matthew

IP: Logged

Kathryn
Member

Posts: 174
Registered: Sep 98

posted 08-22-1999 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kathryn     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
James, I have some questions I would like you to answer please. How do you define anti-semitism? How do you define Jew? Under whose authority are you and what accountability do you have? Under what standards are the believers in Yahuweh and Yahusha' HaMashiach, united and who do you consider outside that fellowship? What do you consider the stick of Yahudah and What the stick of Ephrayim? What do you consider the joining of these two? These questions would help to explain your actions against Daniel Chaput and Pete Vacca. Shalom, Kathryn

IP: Logged

James Trimm
Member

Posts: 339
Registered: Oct 98

posted 08-24-1999 12:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Trimm     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
>James, I have some questions I would like
>you to answer please. How do you define
>anti-semitism?

According to Webster's Dictionary:
ANTISEMITISM:
1. Having or showing prejudice against Jews
2. discriminating against or persecuting Jews
3. of or caused bu such prejudice or hostility

>How do you define Jew?

Webster's Dictionary states:

JEW
1. a person descended or regarded as descended from the ancient Hebrews of Biblical times
2. a person whose religion is Judaism

(Personally I woukld also add that this person would be of the House of Judah in this case)

>Under whose authority are you and what
>accountability do you have?

I am under the authority of the International Nazarene Beit-Din.
We are House of Judah Jewish Yahwists.

>Under what standards are the believers in
>Yahuweh and Yahusha' HaMashiach, united and
>who do you consider outside that
>fellowship?

Well right off Anti-semitsism can NOT be tolerated in the name of unity since by its nature it de-unifies Ephraim and Judah.

>What do you consider the stick of Yahudah
>and What the stick of Ephrayim?

The Stick of Judah is I think "The House of Judah" while the Stick of Ephraim is "House of Israel/Joseph/Ephraim"

>What do you consider the joining of
>these two?

The two houses in unity.

>These questions would help to explain
>your actions against Daniel Chaput and
>Pete Vacca. Shalom, Kathryn

IP: Logged

Kathryn
Member

Posts: 174
Registered: Sep 98

posted 08-24-1999 11:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kathryn     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
James, I didn't ask what Websters defined anti-semitism as or who a Jew ws, I asked how you defined them.

You say that you are under the authority of the International Nazarene Beit Din. Who founded this group and what role do you have in it? What does this group advocate?

Let me get this straight. So you are saying, according to your Websters definition, that anyone who speaks against Judaism or a Jew, is being anti-semetic and de-unifies Ephrayim and Yahudah? Is that correct? And this determines that they are outside the fellowship of Yahuweh and Yahusha'?

Who is of the House of Yahudah and who is of the House of Ephrayim?

Shalom, Kathryn

IP: Logged

James Trimm
Member

Posts: 339
Registered: Oct 98

posted 08-25-1999 02:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Trimm     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Kathryn said:

>James, I didn't ask what Websters defined
>anti-semitism as or who a Jew ws, I asked
>how you defined them.

I speak english. If you do not understand the english words I use then I recomend a good english dictionary to help you learn the language. Webster's is regarded as the most accurate.

> You say that you are
>under the authority of the International
>Nazarene Beit Din.
>Who founded this group and
> what role do you have in
>it?

The beit-din was first founded by three Torah-observant men. I was one of them. It has since grown to nine (see http://www.nazarene.net/beitdin ) I serve as
Nasi (president) however I only have one vote.

>What does this group advocate?

Torah and Messiah

> Let me get this
>straight. So you are saying, according to
>your Websters definition,

No not my Webster's definition. Mine does not have any unique readings in it. All Webster's dictionaries should read the same.

> that anyone who speaks
> against Judaism or a Jew, is
>being anti-semetic

No that is NOT what Webster's says. Webster's says:

1. having or showing prejudice against jews
2. discriminating against or persecuting Jews
3. of or caused by such prejudice or hostility

>and de-unifies Ephrayim and Yahudah?
>Is that correct?

No. Not only did you get the basic definition wrong but Webster's says nothing about deunification of the two houses. That is what I said.

>And this

> determines that they are
>outside the fellowship of Yahuweh and
>Yahusha'?

That is NOT what I said. (although it would almost certainly be tru that an anti-semite would not be in fellowship with Yahweh, Yeshua, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, himself being a Jew)

> Who is of the House of >Yahudah

In the largest sense all Jews. In the more defined sense Jewish followers of Yahweh.
(Such as Nazarene Judaism http://www.nazarene.net )

>and who is of the House of Ephrayim?

In the largest sense all Ephraimites. In the more defined sense Ephraimite followers of Yahweh. For example AoY in Michigan.

James Trimm

IP: Logged

This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | EliYah's Home Page

Please read the disclaimer. If you see any violations of forum guidelines, please contact the moderator.

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.44a
Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.