Revised e-mail from James Trimm  7-7-2000

Subject: Re: Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Beit Din]]
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 18:58:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: James Trimm <>


I also want to thank those who have sent me words of encouragement through
these attacks.  Thank you.

> the reply from djhome61 and my response to them,
>since djhome61 misquoted me and has accused me of sending ofensive
>e-mail. Also, I read the spam policy before I sent the e-mails out, and
>did not feel that I was spamming. After Mr. Trimms post stating that I
>was spamming and to contact my server about it, I called them. I
>explained everything, including mentioning that my post was not posted
>and looking for the addresses and manually sending my post out.
> informed me that that was in no way spamming and they even
>took down the forum address to check where Mt. Trimm said that it was
>and said to mail my ISP about it.

[Mrs. H's] and "Kathryn's" material is filled with lies and half truths.

First off dj posted that he had been receiving unanted mass e-mail
and wanted to know what to do about that:

I replied by telling him how to report spam

Kathryn's statement:

    Mr. Trimms post stating that I was spamming
    and to contact my server about it...

Seems a mischaraterization.




>Shalom b'YHWH
>To the members of the Beit Din and the Friends of the Court, last week I
>was sent some forwards, by a friend, of a situation at a forum. A woman
>named [Mrs. H.] was stating that James Trimm was posting under
>another name of Rabbi Yosef and under that name he was speaking about
>the Book of Mormon. For this statement she was accused of slandering,
>lying and lashon hara. Someone demanded proof. She was begging for
>someone to investigate this.

Actually {Mrs. H.] claimed three things:

    1.  That I rejected Yeshua

    2.  That I rejected the blood atonement doctrine

    3.  That I advocated the Book of Mormon


> I was informed that the [H's] were being
>called to a trial this week, by the Beit Din and involving their Pastor.
> But if he posts information about Mormonism and the Book of
>Mormon by one name and then as James Trimm comes down on [Mrs. H.] or
>anyone else for expressing similar views, and then when they state that
>Trimm and Rabbi Yosef are one and the same, and she is called a liar and
>kicked off the forum and now she and her husband are facing being kicked
>out of their congregation, that is a whole different matter.

Actually all of this is false.


The [H's] problem to my knowledge has NOTHING directly to do with the
Book of Mormon.   I do not believe a "trial" is taking place and it is a
matter being handled by a group of Messianic leaders in Denver to which I
am not even a party.   They were removed from the forums for continually
posting off topic material on the Nazarene Forum.  T***

Now I cannot read the "evidence" because I am using a macintosh so I do not
its contents.

I will say that two days ago I conversed with Mike Detwiler (VP of SANJ)
and in that conversation I told him that I indeed HAD participated in
Mormon forums as well as Islamic forums since 1996 sometimes under my own
name and sometimes under pen names.
I told him that I had indeed at times posted on such forums under various
pen names including "Yosef".

Perhaps this bears some explaining.

I am a scholar of theology.  One of my major interests is comparitive
I have done professional research and been published in this area.  Among my
favorite comparitive religion topics are Islam, Mormonism and Branch

While I have never advocated the Quran I have discussed its meaning
objectively and even taken apart passages and exegeted them in an objective
manner from the Arabic.

I have had many objective discussions about the teachings of David Koresh
on the Branch-Theology list.  But I have never advocated the teachings of

In the same way I have objectively discussed the Book of Mormon but never
advocated the book or Mormonism.  (Interestingly the Book of Mormon
contradicts Mormonism greatly)

To me this is just research.  In fact on my transcript from the Seminary I
actually show SPEC (Special) hours for:  Mormon Theology; Branch Davidian
Theology; Branch Davidian Publication and Research Advisor.

Before I seperated myself from the Christian community I was a research
consultant for Watchman Fellowship which is the second largest Christian
"anti-cult ministry" in the world.  They even published some articles by me
in their journal THE WATCHMAN EXPOSITOR.  I did research for them in the
area of Branch Davidianism and Mormonism.  In fact it was while working for
them that I initially "infiltrated" various Mormon lists.

My reasearch on the Branch Davidians was actually used by Congress in the
hearings over the Mt. Carmel events.  It is also cited in two major books
on the topic WHY WACO?  and ASHES OF WACO.

To this day I often am called on as a research consultant by the Reunion
Institute in Houston Texas which is an accademic rather than Christian

Furthermore I am a part of the Religious-Crisis Task Force, a group of
Theology doctrorates who are available as consultants should another "Waco"
type crisis occur.  Our goal is that the Feds would call upon us to help
them in negotiations to relate to the "cult" as religious people motivated
by their beliefs rather than as criminals who are generally motivated by
greed and survival.  We have often discussed the fact that we might one day
face a radical Polygomous Mormon group in Utah (there are many such groups).

I have also formulated methods of apologetics which involve reaching a
person where they are by intially approaching them with their own sacred
literature.  This includes my 10 step approach to reaching Muslims and my
six step method of approaching Mormons.  I have used these aproaches to
attempt to bring Muslims and Mormons to the Torah and the true Messiah by
participating on Mormon and Muslim lists.  Never in this process do I
advocate the books involved (other than the Bible).

As I have stated repeatedly that I do not advocate the Book of Mormon.
In fact in one conversation with [Mrs. H.] nearly a year ago I even suggested the
possibility that the Book of Mormon might have been DEMONICLY inspired.

I have serious problems with a number of things that are IN the Book of Mormon:

    *  Certain passages at least appear to be anti-nomian:

    " must keep the performances
    and ordinances of God until the law shall be fulfilled
    which was given to Moses."
    - 2Nephi 25:30 (supposedly between 559 & 545 BC)
    (see also Alma 30:3)

    "...but I say to you, that the time shall come
    when it shall no more be expedient
    to keep the law of Moses."
    - Mosiah 13:27 (sopposedly in 148 BC)

    "...the law in me is fulfilled,
    for I have come to fulfil the law;
    therefore it has an end."
    - 3Nephi 15:5 (supposedly quoying "Jesus")

    [right after the coming of "Christ"]
    "And they did not walk anymore after the performances
    and ordinances of the law of Moses..."
    - 4Nephi 1:12

    "...the law of circumcision is done away in me."
    - Moroni 8:8 (supposedly quoting "Jesus")

    *  The book seems to depict traditional Christian practices
     such as Communion [not Passover?] (3Nephi 20:1-9)

    * The Book of Mormon calls the followers of the religion
    it depicts "Christians" supposedly as early as 73 BC
    (Alma 46:13-16).

    * The BoM people supposedly came to the New World
    and kept the law of Moses (2Ne. 25:24; Jarom 1:5; Mosiah 2:3;
    Alma 30:3; 34:14) they supposedly built a Temple "after
    the manner of Solomon" (2Ne. 5:16) and made offerings
    (1Ne. 5:9; 7:22; Mosiah 2:3) Now how could a group of all
    Josephites (1Ne. 15:12; 19:24; 2Ne. 3:2-5; Jacob 2:5 & Alma 26:36)
    do that without any Levites?  Maybe thay just did it theselves
    (1Nephi 2:7) and appointed non-Levites as priests (2Ne. 5:26;
    Jacob 1:18) but then who would say that a group of Josephites
    who built their own Temple, performed their own offerrings
    and appointed their own non-Levitical priests...

        "...did observe to keep the judgements,
        and the statutes, and the commandments of the Lord
        (2Ne. 5:10)?

    Even IF the Lord had told them to do such things would
    it not be WAY beyond the realm of truth to say that
    they were done "according to the law of Moses"?

    *  Also why would a group which kept the law of Moses
    in all things build various Temples in various locations:

        * "The Land of Nephi" (2Ne. 5:8, 16)

        * "The Land of Zarahemla (Mosiah 1:18)

        * "the Land Bountiful" (3Nephi 11:1)

    And much of this time overlaps The Second Temple Era.
    Compare Deut 12:21; 16:16 which teaches only one Temple
    in one chosen place.  How does that work?

    *  While the book is longer than the NT and is largely narative
    it never mentions a Jewish/Biblical holiday by name.  It also
    never mentions a newmoon convocation, Nazarite vow etc.
    This is suspicious.

    *  Although its people supposedly kept the Law of Moses until
    the time of "Christ" the book places the death of "Christ"
    on the "the first month, on the fourth day" (3Ne. 8:5)
    though this day would have been Passover, the 14th day
    of the month on the Biblical/Jewish calendar.  In fact
    Passover roughly coresponds with the full moon and would
    be within a day of the 15th (on a newmoon based calendar)
    or a day of the 1st (on any Fullmoon based calendar) So not only
    is this supposed "BoM calendar" not the Biblical newmoon calendar
    it could not even be a lunar calendar at all.

So yes I have participated on Mormon and Muslim lists both under my own
name and under pennames so as to objectively discuss the Book of Mormon and
Quran and to use the
"for arguments sake" approcah to bring them to Torah and Messiah.

I have also used the same method to research out some of the only first
hand information
on the teachings of Koresh.  I used this information to publish a number of
articles in journals about Branch Davidian Theology, some objective and at
least one was a rebutal to Branch Davidian Theology.

It also needs to be said that there was has also been a Mormon who has used
the name "Yosef" (I belierve his name was Kurt Neumiller) and this person
did advocate the Book of Mormon.

OK now with all of this in mind I want to say that this has NOTHING to do
with [Mrs. H's] problems.

[Mrs. H.] is facing problems NOT because she has researched the Book
of Mormon.  It is not even because she advocates the book (which I do not).
[Mrs. H.] is facing problems for:

    1. ***

    2.  spamming SANJ lists with offtopic material repeatedly

    3.  ***

    4.  ***

    5.  ***

    6.  ***


This has been a diversionary tactic by [Mrs. H.] (or Rahel) to misconstru

The facts are clear:

    1.  [Mrs. H.] was not and has not been disfellowshipped over the
    Book of Mormon.

    2.  I do NOT advocate the Book of Mormon.

Since both of these things are true, it is clear to see that this has been
a diversionary tactic.

One other matter.  This person "purnhrt <>" or "Kathryn"
knows me well.

Eric will remember her.

Nearly a year ago I was exposing the book CHRISTIANITY UNMASQUED as a VERY
anti-semitic book.  A book which even claims that all Jews are the literal
seed of Satan and cannot be saved.  I was exposing the book because it was
written and published by a man who was also the ISR's US rep.  (and ISR is
NOT anti-semitic).  This Kathryn was one of a handful of people to support
the book on various lists that I was exposing it on.  She became very angry
that Dan Israel was removed from ISR as a result of my expose of the book.
She soon attacked SANJ and the Beit Din and began posting material written
by Chris Lingle.
This surprised us, since we knew he had no internet access at the time, it
seemed clear that she was personal friends with him.   This was not a
surprise.  When Lingle apostasized we had heard that he had returned to his
anti-semitic circles.

For those who do not know Lingle was, I am sad to say a leader with SANJ
early on.

The information she posted by Lingle was packed with lies and easy for Eric
and I to disprove.

In short this woman is NOT the objective source she claims to be.  She is a
hard core anti-semite who believes that those of us that are Jews are
actually unredeemable seed of Satan.  She is in league with anti-semites
like Dan Israel and at least at one time has been in league with Lingle.
Beware of this woman.  She could be capable of ANYTHING.

Eric can back up everything I have just told you.

James Trimm

Study Torah with SANJ Mitvah Club