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Author Topic:   Anti-semite "Yahwists" at Elijah's fourm
Kathryn
Member

Posts: 174
Registered: Sep 98

posted 08-27-1999 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kathryn     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
This was just forwarded to me. It originates from James Trimm to the losttribes list.


"The anti-semite "Yahwists" (not all Yahwists are anti-semites) are giving
me a hard time on the Eliyah web-based discusion group at:
http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/forum/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=t
rue

They are DEFENDING Dan Chaput's anti Semitic book which I have been writing
about.

I would apreciate any help from any who feel a desire to speak their mind
on the issue.

Just go to the Home Page Discusion forum and look at these threads:..."

Are you calling me an anti-semite "Yahwist" James? And who else is lumped into your classification, just because they don't agree with you. You seem to be quick to accuse and label people.

I am not anti-semetic. I believe in Yahuweh and the Mashiach that He sent to redeem us from our sins, Yahusha' ben Yahuweh. I believe in following the Way of Yahuweh and observing the Torah, which He gave, observing Shabbath, the Feasts in Scripture. I believe in being immersed in His Name. I believe, that Goyim that turn from their sins to Yahuweh are grafted into the Olive Tree of ISRAEL. That all those grafted in, become of the Household of Yahuweh.

What I don't believe in, is that Talmud=Torah.

I don't believe that speaking out against Judaism makes me, or others, anti-semetic.

I don't believe that a Jew, born as such, automatically receives salvation, just because he is a Jew. Anyone of Jewish descent has to turn from their sins, accept Yahusha' as HaMashiach and walk in the ways of Yahuweh, like the rest of us.

I don't beleive in being against Jews because they are Jewish or Goyim because they are Goyim. Racism goes both ways, unfortunately.

You came to this forum with the accusations against Pete and Dan. Having spoken with Dan before, I called to get his view. Then I called Pete. Both of those men, said the same thing, that they are not against Jews, but against Judaism and Talmud equaling Torah.

I got the book and the speech and typed them up for people to see in what context their comments were made in, believing that you have taken things out of context. I gave people the chance to see for themselves.

You have started thread after thread, on this forum, to continue your attack against these two men, and defend Judaism, and when other people question you, you start calling them anti-semite "Yahwists" and call for reinforcements to defend you.

If what you stood on was Torah, Torah would defend you, but you are standing on Talmud and that is not the foundation of the Beyth Yahuweh. Yahusha', the Word of Yahuweh, the Torah made flesh, is the foundation. The same Mashiach who said that He did not come to abolish Torah and that not one yod or one taggin would disappear from the Torah. The same Mashiach that rebuked the Parushiym and Sopheriym, calling them hypocrites and said that in vain they taught the mitswoth of the beniy adam [sons of MEN]. Saying that they set aside the commands of Yahuweh in order to guard their traditions, that they made the word of Yahuweh null through their traditions which had been handed down to them.

If you stand on the Torah of Yahuweh, you would need no back up. An onslaught of your rabbinical judaism will never stand against True Torah.

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James Trimm
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posted 08-27-1999 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Trimm     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote

ANYONE who defends the anti-semitic book Dan wrote: Christianity Unmasqued, chapter 12 of which is VERY anti-semitic would be an anti-Semite. That has been many of the so-called "Yahwists" on this list.

Anyone who says that saying that Jews are the literal seed of Satan and not sons of Adam at all is OK is an Anti-Semite.

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James Trimm
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posted 08-27-1999 06:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Trimm     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Jews: Seed of the Devil?

A Report on:

CHRISTIANITY UNMAQUED
Chapter 12 "The Judeo-Christian Faith"
by Dan Israel and distrubted by "Dan" Chaput

Chapter 12 of Dan's book is filled with the most vile of anti-Semitic propaganda.

The chapter begins by implying that Jews are the Synagogue of Satan:

Who are the Jews? What is their faith?
Are the Jews the chosen people of Scripture?
Who are those "that are called Jews, but are
of the 'Synagogue of Satan,'" as identified
in Revelation 2:9; 3:9?
(p. 224)

Dan does not beat around the bush. He answers his own rhetorical question:

Many people today calling themselves Jews
are not at all descendants of Abraham, Isaac
and Jacob. Most are not even Israelites.
(p. 247)

...most modern "Jews" are in fact, NOT Israelites.
(p. 250)

If they are not truely Israelites then who are they? Dan has an answer. After saying that those called "Jews" today have replaced the "true Iraelites" like the story of the prince and the pauper (p. 226) he goes on to say:

The prince and the pauper, the battle between the seed
of the flesh and the seed of the Spirit continues to this
day.

In Genesis, right at the very beginning of the Book,
after Satan beguiled Eve, we find Yahweh speaking
to the serpent, stating "I will put enmity between thee
and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
Genesis 3:15

Two different seeds are identified here; two different
seeds that would be at enmity with each other and
would never bond, the seed of the Adversary and the
seed of the Woman, or the seed of the flesh and the
seed of the Promise, (the seed of the Spirit).
(p. 229)

Clearly Dan identifies "Jews" as the seed of Satan. Dan makes no bones about meaning this very literally:

...Cain, who is generally considered to be a son
of Adam is nowhere to be found in Adam's genealogy;
hence possibly the suggestion of a totally different
seedline and lineage existing on this planet? For reference
to this issue see 1Chronicles Ch 1; Gen Ch 4 and 5;
and Gen. 10. Israelites are not Canaanites and the
distinction must be made between these people.
When the land of promise was given to the Israelites,
it was already occupied by Canaanites. The mandate
was for the Israelites to occupy the land and spoil
Yahweh's enemy, the Canaanites.

"In this the children of Yahweh are manifest,
and the children of the adversary: whosoever
does not righteousness is not of Yahweh,
neither he that loveth not his brother (understanding
of kinship). For this is the message that ye heard
from the beginning, that we should love one another.
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one..." IJohn 3:10-12

Of that wicked one?... Another study worthy of your
investigation!
(pp. 249-250)

Dan leaves very little unsaid to require further "investigation." Dan clearly is teaching that the "Jews" of today are the offspring of Satan himself rather than being offspring of Adam. As such he identifies them as the "Synagogue of Satan" who are called Jews when they are not. He further identifies the two seeds as the wheat and the tares (Mt. 13). In this parable God sows good seed in the world and the Devil sows bad seed. Thje good seed are wheat and the bad seed are tares. Dan takes this idea to an extreme arguing not only at the "Jews" are the tares but that being Satan's literal seed they cannot be saved:

The wheat will bear its fruit while the tares will not
and can not.
(p. 236)

This is the most obsene type of anti-Semitism. This type of reasoning can even be used to excuse the wholesale murder of Jews... after all they are not real people, they are literal children of the Devil himself.

James Trimm

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Don
unregistered
posted 08-28-1999 12:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
James

Say, you are starting to sound like a broken record.

I think you had better read Matt 23:, read it James and understand it!

Quit trying to defend the undefendable i.e. Baalism ,I think it's what you call "Judaism"!

Oh by the way James ,how is your Merchant preaching business doing?

Have sold any more books lately?

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James Trimm
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Posts: 339
Registered: Oct 98

posted 08-28-1999 01:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Trimm     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote

FYI the proceeds from all of my books and tapes go to SANJ. I do not get a peny for them
and I do not receive any payment from SANJ.

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Netzarim
Junior Member

Posts: 12
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 08-28-1999 02:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Netzarim     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
First off...

Don - It is not a merchant preaching business. The sales of books are necessary, there is no member of SANJ who receives any salary from SANJ. In fact, most of us are rather poor (financially). None of us can afford to front the money to continually produce books and tapes to send out to all the people who ask for them. We have sent out many books and tapes to those who have asked and indicated a hardship.

Ba'alism??? = Judaism??? You have got to be kidding, it is almost universally understood by Yahwists and other Sabath-Keeping groups that ba'al worship parallels modern christianity.

Kathryn -We have never placed Talmud = Torah. We have used Talmud only to demonstrate the historic precedences of what were the thoughts and how those conclusions were made. The quotes from these men were taken in context. Many people us "haley's bible handbook", yet no one thinks its accuracy or validity is equal to Torah. Why is there this desire to accuse those of us who use it to try to gain the fullest understanding of Torah possible of placing above scripture? We have done NO SUCH THING!

Pete's message was about the new year, not anti-semitism. But within his document are statements which would appear to be anti-semitic. I have addressed this with him directly just the other day. I am awaiting a response. I would be happy if he would just apologize for stating things the way he did and that it wasn't his intent to promote antisemitism. Dan's book has other problems and goes far beyond what Pete said in his short essay. He actually equates Jews with the offspring of HaSatan!! It is in his book, I just read that part of ch 12. He plainly took Talmud quotes out of context. He quoted a minority position, out of the context of the whole argument in an attempt to make people believe that Jews are in favor of men having sex with 9 yr old boys! This type of Lashon Harah is horrible. It is public, he is distributing it, and young impressionable followers will seek out violence against Jews because of it. What would arian nation people or nazi's do with this type of lie? We are trying to reunite the house of Judah with Ephraim, but some of Ephraim just wants to think it's better than Judah and boasts continually. Some of Judah doesn't want to accept Ephraim. Yet according to prophecy, Ephraim must unite with Judah.

All this bickering is making me. Katheryn, before you believe what Chris tells you about us vs what we say about us, I suggest you get a better understanding of him and his history. I will not go into why he is not with us, unless he makes it public, then only to defend our actions. He was part of the Beit Din at its inception. He chose to drop it when he got cold feet. He tried to take me out at the same time. I objected to that action and was re-instated. The Beit Din system is no more than what you would call a "board fo elders"... after all, when you run into a problem with how to apply in a certain portion of scripture, you normally go to the elders for an answer. If they don't have one, then it should go on to those they consider elders. The International Beit Din is the upper level of that structure. There should be other Beit Din's established at the local level. In some cases this exists, in others it doesn't. No, the group in Ra'anah Israel doesn't accept us as legit, but based on their stated beliefs that's O.K. by me. They claim rabbinic approbation, I would like to see it. There is NO orthodox Jewish group that I have ever heard of that has accepted believers in Messiah. They claim they are, they should prove that. They reject all of the NT but Matthew, and then ONLY their specialized version. Have you been to our web site? have you looked through our material? Much of it is on the web. There are 2 realaudio lectures, a third coming soon, and the Torah Talk radio show on at the end of Shabbat too.

We will always stand against anti-semitism. Those of us who are desiring to re-unite the 2 houses need to be very cautious as to how we phrase ourselves so that there is no doubt as to our meaning and intention. Anti-semitism is a part of replacement theology. Replacement theology is the REAL "those who call themselves Jews and are not." There is a whole sermon and maybe 2 regarding this replacement theology problem.

The simple facts are that: Pete said something that gave an appearance he claims he didn't intend. He should apologize for that. Dan is distributing a book that in general is against modern christianity. But Ch 12 is obviously anti-semitic. He should not be passing around material that equates any race of people with the seed of haSatan.

I have more I want to say, but I am being impressed by the Spirit of Yahweh to stop now. So Shabbat Shalom, and may your Shabbat rest go well.

Eric Sandquist

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Don
unregistered
posted 08-28-1999 03:58 AM           Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shabbat shalom

Eric Sandquist and James

HEY I AM GLAD TO HEAR YOU BOYS ARE NOT IN
THE MERCHANT PREACHING BUSINESS.

I don't know how I ever got that idea unless
it's because ever time I turned around james
was hitting people up for money.

Hey my mistake!

So tell me bro.,
ya'll don't draw no pay from SANJ
and SANJ charges only whatever the books or
tapes cost ya'll, right?!?

Ya'll don't have a Tax exempt from the
government,right?!

So your not a corp,right?!

Don't get me wrong now bro.,
I don't have anything against a man going
into business or anything like that.

Hey we all got to eat!

But when it concerns the scriptures,
I don't believe it's right to be charging
people for the word or knowledge of elohim.

DO YOU?


As as my statement about Judaism = baalism

Who removed the name of our creator from the
scriptures and put the name of "BAAL"i.e. l.o.r.d.,
a.d.o.n.u/i.s.etc. in it's place ?


Who has built fences i.e. talmud,kabala etc. all around
the torah so no man may enter in?

JUDAISM!!!!


Look bro. you had better go back and read Matt 23:and then
go back to OT and read about where it says
DON'T HAVE NO OTHER ELOHIM IN MY FACE!

Check out Yirm 23:25-29
This gives a good discription of just what this Babylon mystery religion called JUDAISM has done.

BUT YOU RIGHT BAALISM DOES HAVE PARALLELS IN
CHRISTAINITY AND IT'S JUST AS BAD IF NOT WORSE THAN JUDAISM.

Judaism is undefendable and has nothing to do with the true faith or the true people of YHWH i.e. YAHUWDAH, a worshipper of YHWH!

You see there is really no such thing as a JEW a slang term and not a very nice one either for (Scripturually YAHUWDIM).

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Kathryn
Member

Posts: 174
Registered: Sep 98

posted 08-28-1999 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kathryn     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
James, I never defended Christianity Unmasqued. I stated to people that I had not read the book yet, only Chapter 12. I typed it up for people to read the enitre context in which it was written. I even stated that he had written much about the lost ten tribes and that I had not studied this subject yet, and could not therefore, make any opinions on that subject.

What I am defending, is your accusing them of anti-semitism, which they assured me they were not. I have met anti-semites and they are not the least bit afraid to tell you that they hate Jews. They are quite proud in fact. Pete and Dan did not say they hated Jews. THey did state that they were against Judaism and Talmud=Torah. THis is why I made available Petes speech and Chapter 12, for those that wanted to see the entire context. I believe you have taken things out of context. Where I may not necessarily agree with their wording, at times, I see that by reading the ENTIRE speech or Chapter, that they did not have the intention of anti-semitism, but being against Judaism.

I got in touch with them and asked them questions about all this, something you should have done before starting a smear campaign against them. But since you did not, and they were not aware of your posts at Elijahs, to defend or explain themselves, I stepped in the breach to get this situation clarified.

You on the other hand, did not care to get anything clarified and insisted that you had the right and authority to do as you pleased. So then I questioned your right and your authority, which you still have not answered to my satisfaction, based on Torah.

Now as to the subject, which you have brought up about anyone who says that the Jews are the seed of Satan, as being anti-semetic;
I did not say that, nor would I blanketly says so. THere are qualifications that go with that statement.

In Yahuchanan 8, Yahusha', Himself, in a discussion with the Yahudiym, states that His Father, Yahuweh, was not the same Father as those that did not believe in Him (Yahusha'). He goes on to say that the unbelieving Yahudiym would love Him (Yahusha') if their father were Yahuweh, but since it is not, they don't. He says that they are of their father, the devil, who was a murderer and a liar from the beginning.

The qualification is that of being an unbelieving Jew. An unbelieving Jew, being one that does not believe that Yahusha' was the Ben Yahuweh, the Mashiach that Yahuweh sent and all Yisrael was waiting for.

Now, you cannot tell me that Yahusha' is anti-semetic. THough the Parushiym and Sopheriym accused Him of being demon possessed, so I quess that a person could accuse Him of being ant-semetic, but it would not be true. I hold to this belief, that those that are not of Yahuweh and His Son, Yahusha' HaMashiach, are Their enemies, until such time as they repent from their sins and turn to Yahuweh and believe in His Son, as They have stated in Scripture. This hold true of the Goyim as well.

You can call me what you want. Yahuweh will stand as a witness between the two of us in this matter. By the Scripture you can not truthfully label me that. So your words fall to the ground and are of no effect to me.

This thread was not about Christianity Unmasqued, or I would have titled it as such. But about your calling those of us at Elijah's forum, who did not agree with you, "anti-semetic Yhwhist's." Again, when confronted with an issue that you do not want to truthfully answer, you avoid the issue and try to blow smoke and divert attention to something else. You cannot defend your actions, which are getting worse with every post you put up, with Torah and I do not acknowlege your self appointed authority, or your Talmud to do so. Your arguments do not hold water, hence your need for backup.

I find your behavior to be poor character, for one who says that he is a leader of others. I fear what you are leading these people to. We are to look to Yahusha' as our Rab [Great] Shepherd and the Torah, which He teaches, to lead us. Not one that tears at the sheep and promotes sectarianism instead.

Kathryn

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Joel
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posted 08-28-1999 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joel     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
It seems that the accusations of anti-semitism have stemmed from the lack of a universal understanding of the terms Jew, Jews, Jewish, Judahite, Israelite, etc. as used by those participating in scriptural discussions.

As a suggestion it might be helpful for all to agree upon terms that would not be misunderstood and would promote a healthly exchange of ideas without being accused of being an anti-semite.

I like the way Qadesh La Yahweh Press handles the situation in their publication "The Festivals and Sacred Days of Yahweh." A brief explanation is contained under the sub-head "Jew, Jews, and Jewish" on pages 21-22 of Chapter 1. The direct web site link is: http://www.yahweh.org/publications/pdf3/fs01Chap.pdf

Possibly this could help to provide a unified understanding of various references and terminologies used in scriptural studies without offending the Jewish people as an ethnic group.

Joel

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Kathryn
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posted 08-28-1999 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kathryn     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Joel, if you will check, "Unity COnference, a Jewish Perspective", you will see that I have been asking James to define the terms, himself. Perhaps if you ask, he might do it. Shalom, Kathryn

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Kathryn
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posted 08-29-1999 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kathryn     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Eric, So you are the back up. Welcome to the discussion. Perhaps you would like to go back and read an article that James sent out on one of his lists.


Subject: [moedim] Intercalation
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:58:57 -0500
From: James Trimm
Reply-To: moedim@nazarene.net
To: moedim@nazarene.net

THE SECRET OF THE INTERCALATION
OF THE HEBREW CALENDAR

by James Trimm

HOW MANY TORAHS

"Before we can answer the issue of the intercalation of the Hebrew calendar we must first understand another issue. How many Torahs did Moses receive on Mt. Sinai? The Torah says: These are the decrees, the ordinances, and the TORAHS that YHWH gave, betwen Himself and the Children of Israel, at Mount Sinai, through Moses. (Lev. 26:46)

This passage indicates that Moses received more than one Torah on Mount Sinai. Most people know that Moses received a Written Torah on Mount Sinai but few know that Moses received an Oral Torah as well. When Moses
received the written Torah he also received an oral Torah which was a companion to the written Torah. There is a great deal of evidence to prove the existance of the Oral Torah that was received with the written Torah."

"There are also many commands within the Written Torah which cannot be kept
without an Oral Torah to clarify them:"

"All of these unclear statements in the written Torah without an oral Torah
while the Scriptures tell us that YHWH's teachings to Israel have always
been clear (Is. 45:19). The written Torah without the Oral Torah is so
unclear that it simply could not be observed."

"Torah observance cannot be accomplished without the oral Torah which has
been passed from generation to generation by the Jews but lost to Ephraim.
Thus Paul writes:"

Perhaps you two would like to huddle up and determine what is to be what, so that you don't contradict each other. James is clearly saying that you cannot possible follow Torah, without Talmud and that thee were two Torahs (Toroth). Now, I know that the word Torah means several things. It represnts the 5 books of Moshe ( the Pentateuch), it represents the Law, HaTorah, it also means teachings. You can have laws and teachings, that are plural. But James is manipulating the Hebrew to justify the authority of Talmud. If you do not feel that is is a grave error, perhaps we could put it forth to the body of believers and see if any of them buy into this flagrant rabbinicism.

Ironically Yahusha' also equates UNBELIEVING JEWS with the offspring of HaSatan. Yahuchanan also called them a brood of adders. THey were also called white washed tombs that were filled with hypocrisy and torahlessness, snakes, hypocrites, sons of Gei Hinnom, fools and blind guides, murders of the nebiym of Yahuweh, etc. You want to label terms like that as anti-semetic, then you label Yahusha' HaMashiach Ben Yahuweh for being so. Personally, I would rather keep company with Him, than people that do not know how to put a reign on their tongue or rightly divide the word of Yahuweh.

Dan quoted a few portions of Talmud. Perhaps even quoting someones quote, I don't know, but those would not be the portions that I would have chosen. I have whole passages, not a few verses here and there, that obviously contradict Torah. Now if you would like to debate Talmud verses Torah, I can show you much more damning evidence of the contradictions in Talmud. What Dan wrote was peanuts compared to the weight of all that there is.

Young, impressionable followers reading that book, would not seek out violence against Jews, because of the statements made in it. What it would cause them to do, was to NOT be seeking out organizations such as y'alls, that promote Judaism and would not be pouring out money in support of such. Perhaps that is the greater worry you fear. Lack of support.

Arian nations or nazi's do not care about Torah and following it. Which is what Dan stressed.

You wrote, "We are trying to reunite the house of Judah with Ephraim, but some of Ephraim just wants to think it's better than Judah and boasts continually. Some of Judah doesn't want to accept Ephraim."

Since you and James use the same code words or lingo, perhaps you could tell me, which James would not, just what makes you think that the house of Judah is believing Jews and the house of Ephraim is Goyim beleivers, but not Jews. Where in Scripture do you get this belief from? I know people that are of the house of Ephraim, they are called Shomroniym - Samaritans to some. Literal descendants of Ephraim. Some of them do not believe in Yahusha' Hamashiach as the Ben Yahuweh. They, like some of the unbelieving Yahudiym, are still waiting for Mashiach. They are true house of Ephraim. Not this faddish game you people are playing, sectioning the believers off into groups for superiority.

Interestingly enough, Moses Gaster, a Jewish Rabbi in England in the 1920's, wrote a book on them (Shomroniym) and their history, even calling them the house of Ephraim and saying that Ephraim needed to be united with the stick of Yahudah, that both had a lot to learn from each other. Funny that a Jewish Rabbi, a real one, would refer to Ephraim as being the Shomroniym, where you people are coming up with a whole nother grouping that cannot be backed up by the Scriptures and I'm talking Tanak.

Now, you have brought Chris Lingle to public awareness. I got in touch with him to confirm whose idea it was for the Beit Din, which James statd he was a cofounder of. James sent me an e-mail and said that he wanted the dicussion private, which I kept it. YOU have now made it public and once public, will involve Chris and others.

If you are just a board of elders, then you would all be able to meet the criteria of elders that is listed in Timothy and Titus, correct? And why would titles such as Nasi, when Yahusha' is the Nasi, be necessary? Why try to pattern it after a rabbinical Judaism order?

The reuniting of the two houses is of Yahuweh, you cannot force or bring about in your timing, what Yahuweh wills. It is based on the foundation of Yahuweh Himself, His Son Yhausha', His True Torah. It is not of man to decide what is to be done and who is of this work and who is outside it.

I disagree that those "Jews who call themselves Jews and are not" are those of replacement theology, though granted, just by saying you are Jewish does not make it so, even for those that say they are of Jewish descent.

That verse is one to the Qehillah in Smurna. The one in the letter to the Qehillah in Philedelphia, sheds more light on who is of this "Synagogue of Satan". Revelation 3:8,9, " 'I know your deed - observe, I have set before your face an open door, which man does not have the power to shut, that you have diminished strength, yet you have guarded My Word, and did not cover up My Name. See, I am giving up those of the Keneseth of HaSatan, who say they are Yahudiym and are not, but lie. See, I am making them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.' "

That word for cover up, is the same as the lid on the Mercy Seat. Basically, to put a lid on His Name. The Yahudiym and their Rabbinical halacha did that. These are unbelieving Yahudiym that He is discussing here. Those that were circumcised in flesh, but not in heart.

THere was no replacement theology to warn about then, just physical Yahudiym that did not acknowledge Yahusha' as Ben Yahuweh and Ha Mashaich, who killed the nebiyiym, and made a den of thieves of His Father's Beyth, who released a criminal and had Yahusha' executed, just as Kepha accused them of, then had Stephan stoned after he accusd them also of murdering the nebiyiym and the Righteous One, killed Yaaqob Tsaddik, and attacked Shaul on his journeys. You cannot begin to tell me that these same unbelieving Yahudiym, that Yahusha' chastised repeatedly, were not those of the Keneseth HaSatan.

Yahusha' stressed that those that believed in Him were His brothers and sisters. It does not matter if they were of Hebrew birth or were Goyim, they are now in the Household of Yahuweh, if they turn from their sins to Yahuweh, believe in His Son Yahusha', and are immersed in His Name and do His mitswoth. These are the requirments for salvation. Nowhere does it say that if you were born Jewish, that you are saved.

If you are here to defend James, then you have done no better job than James did. Neither of you are speaking Torah and I wonder why. My whole point of this thread was to refute James Trimm's wholesale accusation of those of us, that did not agree with Talmud=TOrah, the practices of Judaism, or his opinions, as being anti-semetic YHWHists. You have done nothing to change my opinion of his teachings, in fact, you wrote nothing that he did not, and just put it under another name.

You did not clarify what a Jew is by Scripture, you did to define the house of Yahudah and the house of Ephrayim by Scripture, you did not answer any of the questions that I had concerning the legitimacy of James Trimms authority.

You HAVE repeated what he said, except contradicting him on the Talmud issue. You have taken a private matter and now made it public. ANd you have brought up a very good point about the board of elders. Since you equate yourselves as elders, then you would have to pass the test of elders. That will be interesting.

I look forward to your response, to see what your answers you have from SCRIPTURE.

Shalom, Kathryn

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James Trimm
Member

Posts: 339
Registered: Oct 98

posted 08-29-1999 09:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Trimm     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote

Actually most anti-semites will say that they are not.

ANd MANY anti-Semites do not even realize it.

ANti-semites will often reason, as Dan has and as Pete did to a lesser extent, that they themselves are Shemites and that sisnce they do not hate themselves they are not anti-semites.

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Dan Gregg
Junior Member

Posts: 18
Registered: Feb 99

posted 08-30-1999 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dan Gregg     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Kathryn,

You brought up that passage where Yayshua calls his opponents father 'the devil.' You go on to define the opponents as 'unbelieving Jews,' --- that may be generally true, but Yayshua qualified his opponents further, "As it is, you are out to kill me" (JNT, John 8:40). That this was their motive is confirmed by the Lashon Hara in John 8:48, where 'Yehudim' means 'Judeans' and more specifically the Judeans who were present as his opponents at that time.
Hence we cannot say that he was teaching that the devil was the Father of unbelieving Jews elsewhere. Jews elsewhere who worship YHWH in good conscience do indeed worship YHWH. It is only those with the desire of murder who look to the author of that thought: the adversary.
Let me ask you, whose father was the rest of Jewery, who did not oppose Messiah to his face, yet who did not yet know him in the flesh at that time?

Daniel

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