Subject: Re: SEEKING RECONCILIATION
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:54:14 -0500
From: purnhrt <email@example.com>
To: James Trimm <firstname.lastname@example.org>
CC: email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com,
firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com
James, it doesnt matter how many times you send it, or who it is copied to, it is
not a true apology. As I stated to you before and to Michael Detwiler, I can read.
You are not apologizing for calling me an anti-semite, apologizing for lying,
since I am not one. You are apologizing for committing lashon hara, which are two
different things, in your eyes and according to your statements.
In your first post to your forum, on lashon hara, you wrote,
" Many people make
the mistake of thinking that the prohibition of lashon hara - negative speech - is
limited only to saying falsity and untruth.
But this is not so. Lying falls under a separate prohibition, expressed in Exodus
20:13, 23:7. Lashon hara is the prohibition against saying anything negative or
derogatory about another person - even when it's true! Often, lashon hara will
couch itself in a cloak of rationalizations.
It doesn't even matter whether the words are spoken implicitly or implied. If the
message can be construed negatively, then it is a violation of lashon hara. Be
aware of potential lashon hara situations and stop them before they start."
You also stated in your reply to me, of the Beit Din e-mail,
"They have also
spread both lies and lashon hara. (Lashon Hara is information that is true but
which is spread maliciously.)"
So your statments were quite clear on how you view lashon
hara. I pointed this out
to you in a reply to your first mailing of this so called apology. It is not true
that I am an anti-semite. Instead of correcting your e-mail, you sent it to your
lists and posted it to the forum. What you should apologize for are the lies you
have spoken against my name and make a retraction of all of those. That is the
only way there can be shalom.
Michael Detwiler asked what the lies were. I will list that below, once again.
The first is on the forum post, 39934, in which James Trimm
says that my e-mail to
the forum members was spam and to contact my ISP and report it. I read through the
e-groups subject of spam, what I was
doing was not spam. Also, by the definitions of spam, at the nazarene site, I was
Then James sends out his revised letter and really cuts
loose with the lies.
"[Mrs. H's] and "Kathryn's" material is filled with lies and half truths. "
My material is not filled with lies and half truths. My evidence has been in
complete documents. No lies or half truths at all.
"Kathryn (firstname.lastname@example.org) is a liar. " I am not
a liar and all the material at
the website proves that I am not.
I received an e-mail from James Trimm
that he was Rabbi Yosef and participated at numerous
forums, including Mormon, Branch Davidian and Muslim,
under various names.
Well that is QUITE a distortion (even a lie) of the e-mail
I sent. The
e-mail I sent was carbon copied to all of the members of the SANJ beit-din so it
is not just my word against hers. Below is an exact copy of the e-mail I sent to
this woman and carbon copied to the SANJ
beit-din members. When you read it you will see that she has TOTALLY distorted and
even lied about what it said."
Not only is this a lie about his carbon copying y'all the
letter he sent to me,
but his copy is not an exact copy, which I have proved at my site and shown the
differences. I have the original and will e-mail it
again to show you the headers, dates and context. Also, he did clearly state that
he posted as Rabbi Yosef, which he says you were aware of and you even said so in
your e-mail to me. I do not lie or distort
"Furthermore it should be said that the SANJ forums are
unmoderated. The only
reason Kathryn was unable to post was that she was banned from all SANJ forums
about a year ago because of abuse and
anti-semitic posts. Thus her email address is filtered from all SANJ systems
THis one contains several lies. First, I was never banned
from any SANJ forums a
year ago. I only participated at EliYah's and I was not banned from that one.
Again, the evidence is at my site, that I left because of James Trimm, not because
I was banned.
Also, my post was blocked, because of content. I have proof
at my site that I did
not use my email@example.com address to post either the first, or the second time.
I used my sons for the first and got a new address for the second, so there is no
way that my original address being blocked would have prevented the posts from not
Finally, I have never made any anti-semitic posts anywhere.
I have disagreed with
James over what he terms anti-semitic, I have disagreed with his smear tactics, I
have disagreed with his doctrine of who the
Beyth Yahudah and the Beyth Efrayim are, but I am not anti-semitic in the least
and my posts prove that.
"This Kathryn was one of a handful of people to support
the book on various lists
that I was exposing it on. She became very angry that Dan Israel was removed from
ISR as a result of my expose of the book. She soon attacked SANJ and the Beit Din
and began posting material written by Chris Lingle. This surprised us, since we
knew he had no internet access at the time, it seemed clear that she was personal
friends with him. This was not a surprise. When Lingle apostasized we had heard
that he had returned to his anti-semitic circles. "
I never supported the book and again, my posts prove it.
My contention with him
was over his not checking with Pete Vacca and Dan Chaput, over what they wrote,
for colarification, first. He just went to all his lists and smeared them as
anti-semites. I had spoken with Dan twice, when I had ordered copies of the ISR.
At no time did he ever make any anti-semitic comments. He did speak of Lost
Tribes, but I hear that even from James. He did speak of obseving Thorah, but did
not agree that Talmud was equal to THorah. So I called him and asked him about the
book. He also gave me Petes number and I called him
and asked about his paper. Again, the smae thing. THese men were not speaking
against Jews and promoting hate, but of Rabbinical Judaism practices that
Pete sent me his speech and Dan his book. I typed up the
speech and the chapter 12
of Dans book and offered them, at EliYah's forum, to anyone who wanted to see the
whole writing, to see the context of
what was written. It was clear from context that they had been misquoted.
Something James seems to have a serious problem with, even quoting himself. I at
no time advocated Dans book, which I even
stated at the forum.
What I became upset about, was that James went to ISR and
sought to get Dan
removed as the distribuator of ISR's publications. Dan was doing that as a
freewill offering. He never received any money
or markup of the Scritpures that he distributed. I contacted ISR about what was
going on and asked them to please check into this thoroughly, and not take James
Trimms word for it. Dan is still a distibutor for them now, along with two other
I never attacked SANJ and the Beit Din. What I did was ask
James, under what
authority he was acting under in all this. He said the Beit Din, so I asked about
the Beit Din. He said it was started by he and two
other men who appointed him as Nasi. So I asked who the two other men were. After
asking several times, he finally named Chris Lingle and Eric Sanquist. So I got in
touch with a friend that had mentioned
the studies of Chris Lingle and asked if they would pass on my phone number or
allow me to call them. Chris sent his number and I called and asked about the
origins of the Beit Din. He informed me that he
did not vote James as Nasi and had even refused to be the Av. He said he even had
objected to the terms Nasi and Av. So then I posted this up, in response to James
saying that he was appointed Nasi by him.
What I questioned was the authority of James Trimm to behave the way he was and
when he said because he was Nasi, then I questioned that.
I never posted any material by Chris Lingle. James Trimm
is the only one I know of
that has the material of Chris Lingle posted.
No where does it seem clear that I was personal friends
with him. I even wrote in
the post that I got the number and called to confirm James Trimm's story. James is
trying to make a connect to further discredit me. And he makes the first
anti-semitic comment, which I am not.
"The information she posted by Lingle was packed with lies
and easy for Eric and I
to disprove. " As I said before, I never posted any of Lingles stuff. And James
and Eric never easily proved anything. In fact
James was having such a hard time with me, that he send a note out to his lists,
stating, " "The anti-semite "Yahwists" (not all Yahwists are anti-semites) are
giving me a hard time on the Eliyah web-based
discusion group at: http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-
They are DEFENDING Dan Chaput's anti Semitic book which
been writing about. I would apreciate any help from any who feel a desire to
speak their Mind on the issue.
Just go to the Home Page Discusion forum and look
Eric was the only one to show up. He posted once and not
again. He did such a poor
job as a back up, that I wrote,
" Eric, So you are the back up. Welcome to the discussion.
Perhaps you would like
to go back and read an article that James sent out on one of
Subject: [moedim] Intercalation
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:58:57 -0500
From: James Trimm
THE SECRET OF THE INTERCALATION
OF THE HEBREW CALENDAR
by James Trimm
HOW MANY TORAHS
"Before we can answer the issue of the intercalation of the
Hebrew calendar we must first understand another issue.
How many Torahs did Moses receive on Mt. Sinai? The
Torah says: These are the decrees, the ordinances,
and the TORAHS that YHWH gave, betwen Himself and the
Children of Israel, at Mount Sinai, through Moses. (Lev.
This passage indicates that Moses received more than one
Torah on Mount Sinai. Most people know that Moses
received a Written Torah on Mount Sinai but few know that
Moses received an Oral Torah as well. When Moses received
the written Torah he also received an oral Torah which was a
companion to the written Torah. There is a great deal of
evidence to prove the existance of the Oral Torah that was
received with the written Torah."
"There are also many commands within the Written Torah
which cannot be kept without an Oral Torah to clarify
"All of these unclear statements in the written Torah without
an oral Torah while the Scriptures tell us that YHWH's
teachings to Israel have always been clear (Is. 45:19). The
written Torah without the Oral Torah is so unclear that it
simply could not be observed."
"Torah observance cannot be accomplished without the oral
Torah which has been passed from generation to generation
by the Jews but lost to Ephraim. Thus Paul writes:"
Perhaps you two would like to huddle up and determine
what is to be what, so that you don't contradict each other.
James is clearly saying that you cannot possible follow
Torah, without Talmud and that thee were two Torahs
(Toroth). Now, I know that the word Torah means
several things. It represnts the 5 books of Moshe ( the
Pentateuch), it represents the Law, HaTorah, it also means
teachings. You can have laws and teachings, that are plural.
But James is manipulating the Hebrew to justify the
authority of Talmud. If you do not feel that is is a grave
error, perhaps we could put it forth to the body of believers
and see if any of them buy into this flagrant rabbinicism.
Ironically Yahusha' also equates UNBELIEVING JEWS with
the offspring of HaSatan. Yahuchanan also called them a
brood of adders. THey were also called white washed
tombs that were filled with hypocrisy and torahlessness,
snakes, hypocrites, sons of Gei Hinnom, fools and blind
guides, murders of the nebiym of Yahuweh, etc. You want to
label terms like that as anti-semetic, then you label
Yahusha' HaMashiach Ben Yahuweh for being so.
Personally, I would rather keep company with Him, than
people that do not know how to put a reign on their tongue
or rightly divide the word of Yahuweh.
Dan quoted a few portions of Talmud. Perhaps even quoting
someones quote, I don't know, but those would not be the
portions that I would have chosen. I have whole passages,
not a few verses here and there, that obviously contradict
Torah. Now if you would like to debate Talmud verses
Torah, I can show you much more damning evidence
of the contradictions in Talmud. What Dan wrote was
peanuts compared to the weight of all that there is.
Young, impressionable followers reading that book, would
not seek out violence against Jews, because of the statements
made in it. What it would cause them to do, was to NOT be
seeking out organizations such as y'alls, that promote
Judaism and would not be pouring out money in support of
such. Perhaps that is the greater worry you fear. Lack of
Arian nations or nazi's do not care about Torah and
following it. Which is what Dan stressed.
You wrote, "We are trying to reunite the house of Judah with
Ephraim, but some of Ephraim just wants to think it's better
than Judah and boasts continually. Some of Judah doesn't
want to accept Ephraim."
Since you and James use the same code words or lingo,
perhaps you could tell me, which James would not, just
what makes you think that the house of Judah is believing
Jews and the house of Ephraim is Goyim beleivers, but not
Jews. Where in Scripture do you get this belief from? I know
people that are of the house of Ephraim, they are called
Shomroniym - Samaritans to some. Literal descendants of
Ephraim. Some of them do not believe in Yahusha'
Hamashiach as the Ben Yahuweh. They, like some of the
unbelieving Yahudiym, are still waiting for Mashiach. They
are true house of Ephraim. Not this faddish game you
people are playing, sectioning the believers off into groups
Interestingly enough, Moses Gaster, a Jewish Rabbi in
England in the 1920's, wrote a book on them (Shomroniym)
and their history, even calling them the house of Ephraim
and saying that Ephraim needed to be united with the stick
of Yahudah, that both had a lot to learn from each other.
Funny that a Jewish Rabbi, a real one, would refer to
Ephraim as being the Shomroniym, where you people
are coming up with a whole nother grouping that cannot be
backed up by the Scriptures and I'm talking Tanak.
Now, you have brought Chris Lingle to public awareness. I
got in touch with him to confirm whose idea it was for the
Beit Din, which James statd he was a cofounder of. James
sent me an e-mail and said that he wanted the dicussion
private, which I kept it. YOU have now made it public and
once public, will involve Chris and others.
If you are just a board of elders, then you would all be able
to meet the criteria of elders that is listed in Timothy and
Titus, correct? And why would titles such as Nasi, when
Yahusha' is the Nasi, be necessary? Why try to pattern it
after a rabbinical Judaism order?
The reuniting of the two houses is of Yahuweh, you cannot
force or bring about in your timing, what Yahuweh wills. It
is based on the foundation of Yahuweh Himself, His Son
Yhausha', His True Torah. It is not of man to decide what is
to be done and who is of this work and who is outside it.
I disagree that those "Jews who call themselves Jews and are
not" are those of replacement theology, though granted, just
by saying you are Jewish does not make it so, even for those
that say they are of Jewish descent.
That verse is one to the Qehillah in Smurna. The one in the
letter to the Qehillah in Philedelphia, sheds more light on
who is of this "Synagogue of Satan". Revelation 3:8,9, " 'I
know your deed - observe, I have set before your face an
open door, which man does not have the power to shut, that
you have diminished strength, yet you have guarded My
Word, and did not cover up My Name. See, I am giving
up those of the Keneseth of HaSatan, who say they are
Yahudiym and are not, but lie. See, I am making them come
and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved
That word for cover up, is the same as the lid on the Mercy
Seat. Basically, to put a lid on His Name. The Yahudiym and
their Rabbinical halacha did that. These are unbelieving
Yahudiym that He is discussing here. Those that were
circumcised in flesh, but not in heart.
THere was no replacement theology to warn about then, just
physicalYahudiym that did not acknowledge Yahusha' as
Ben Yahuweh and Ha Mashaich, who killed the nebiyiym,
and made a den of thieves of His Father's Beyth, who
released a criminal and had Yahusha' executed, just as
Kepha accused them of, then had Stephan stoned after he
accusd them also of murdering the nebiyiym and the
Righteous One, killed Yaaqob Tsaddik, and attacked Shaul
on his journeys. You cannot begin to tell me that these same
unbelieving Yahudiym, that Yahusha' chastised repeatedly,
were not those of the Keneseth HaSatan.
Yahusha' stressed that those that believed in Him were His
brothers and sisters. It does not matter if they were of
Hebrew birth or were Goyim, they are now in the
Household of Yahuweh, if they turn from their sins to
Yahuweh, believe in His Son Yahusha', and are immersed in
His Name and do His mitswoth. These are the
requirments for salvation. Nowhere does it say that if you
were born Jewish, that you are saved.
If you are here to defend James, then you have done no
better job than James did. Neither of you are speaking Torah
and I wonder why. My whole point of this thread was to
refute James Trimm's wholesale accusation of those of us,
that did not agree with Talmud=TOrah, the practices of
Judaism, or his opinions, as being anti-semetic YHWHists.
You have done nothing to change my opinion of his
teachings, in fact, you wrote nothing that he did not, and just
put it under another name.
You did not clarify what a Jew is by Scripture, you did to
define the house of Yahudah and the house of Ephrayim by
Scripture, you did not answer any of the questions that I had
concerning the legitimacy of James Trimms authority.
You HAVE repeated what he said, except contradicting him
on the Talmud issue. You have taken a private matter and
now made it public. ANd you have brought up a very good
point about the board of elders. Since you equate yourselves
as elders, then you would have to pass the test of elders.
That will be interesting.
I look forward to your response, to see what your answers
you have from SCRIPTURE.
James then continues his lies in his revised letter: "In
short this woman is NOT
the objective source she claims to be. She is a hard core anti-semite who
believes that those of us that are Jews are actually unredeemable seed of Satan.
She is in league with anti-semites like Dan Israel and at least at one time has
been in league with Lingle. Beware of this woman. She could be capable of
Michael, you can check all my posts during that time, which
I have on my site, or
you can go to EliYah's, and see the Echad private forum that EliYah moved all this
to. I at no time make any such statement. I
am not an anti-semite of any degree, much less hardcore. I am not in league with
any anti-semites. And I was not in league with Chris Lingle. All of the evidence
of this is at my site, including the letter to Lingle and my activites showing
that I am not anti-semitic.
The only truthful statement by Trimm of me, was to beware
of me, that I am capable
The lies do not stop with this e-mail. James then sends
out an e-mail to his
lists, stating that I have contradicted myself, first saying that I do not know
him, then saying that I knew him last year. I sent a rebuttal letter out, showing
For those of you who received this message, I hope you can read better
than James Trimm. I never said that I did not know James Trimm. I said that I did
not know Rabbi Yosef. Maybe his ability to read is not the
question, but that he so identifies as Rabbi Yosef, that he cant
distinguish between James Trimm and Rabbi Yosef, when it is written.
Here is my quote from the following post:
">The problem with this situation is a matter of proof, is it not? I do
>not know [Mrs. H.] , nor do I know Rabbi Yosef. I have not even read
>the Book of Mormon. But my curiosity began when I heard a plea from a
>woman begging for an investigation to prove the truth. That to me
>like something to look into, so I did. Remember I said earlier, that I
>value truth and honesty as righteousness. That is
>reason that I spent hours pouring over this and several other forums
>related here. Here, Adam Bernay and any other person that wanted
>proof is the proof."
As to exchanging Lashon Hara, he is the only one slandering.
simply stated the truth to defend his slander. First involving [Mrs. H.]
, then when he said I was a hardcore anti-semite, liar, etc.
Stating a truth to defend an untruth is not Lashon Hara, it is Thorah.
YHWH does not honor slander. Mishley 6:16-19, " These six YHWH hates, and seven
are hateful to His nafesh. Proud eyes, a lying tongue, and hands shedding innocent
blood. A heart devising plans of
wickedness, feet hurrying to run to evil. A false witness who breathes out lies,
and one sending out strife between brothers." Shalom, Kathryn
These Michael, are the lies that James has stated about
me and needs to apologize
for and make retractions, for the statements were all false. As I told him in my
e-mail to him, when he mentioned reconciliation, that I want I full apology and
complete retractions of his lies, on the forum and to all his list. That I will
not accept an apology such as he gave Pete Vacca last year. If you are not
familiar with his apology to Pete Vacca, one of the men that he went on an
anit-semite smear campaign against, then here it is.
"Pete, I likewise apologize if I misrepresented you as being
an anti-Semite. I
believe that your remarks came out as anti-Semitic statements but that they were
not intended to be. Thank you for your apology.
James Trimm "
THere was no "if" or "misrepresented" about it. He blatantly
and repeatedly called
him an anti-semite. WHich could have been avoided, had he simply called him, as a
brother, to talk with him about his
terms, in the first place. When I asked him why he did not do this, he said that
he didnt have to.
So you can see Michael, I am unwavering in this. I will
accept nothing less, and I
deserve nothing less. All the e-mails that I have recieved from numerous people
who have taken the time to check into this, are all in agreement, that I am
justified in my position.
Now, that brings us to the present. You had an opportunity
to correct your e-mail,
so that it clearly said that I was not an anti-semite. Since you did not, that
shows me that your intention was not to state that I was not anti-semite, but to
apologize for speaking what you consider the truth, that you view me as an
anti-semite. As I stated, this is not an apology and certaintly not acceptable.
You are like a messy child. Everytime you do something, you create an even bigger
mess and I have to come up behind you and clean it up. You have been given so many
opportunities to behave uprightly and righteously in these matters and you have
hardened your heart and taken the cowards way out each time. It is sad to see this
in a man, one who claims to be a leader and more importantly one who says he
believes in YHWH. I told you I would not accept one of your Pete Vacca apologies
and you did it anyway. You didnt make this situation better, you made it worse,
because you reinforced the idea that I am an anti-semite. Now I have to clean up
after you again.