The following is the chronology of events and communication involved with the slander by Bruce (Baruch) Gorovenko.
12/11 Uri Marcus called me, after speaking with Bruce Gorovenko on the phone. He relayed to me that Bruce said that he tried talking with me, but I was bent on slandering James. Uri told me that Bruce even offered his 800 number to speak with me. I did not know who Bruce was, until I asked Uri what Bruce's email address was and recognized it right away. I went and found the e-mails involving Bruce. Then I wrote to Bruce and asked him what he had communicated to Uri. Since Uri also told me that Bruce did not believe anything of James Trimm's involvement with the BoM, I included a link to a page on my website, that had all the information and proof, as well as 6 forwards of the BoM forums, that James began as Rabbi Yosef, showing the continued activity.
12/11 Questions about Baruch's communication
James Trimm and the Book of Mormon
BoM Forum Forwards
The first three forwards I sent to myself on 11/7. The final 3 forwards I sent to myself on 11/28. You can see, from the calendar postings, that there was continued activity since I exposed him as Rabbi Yosef. You can see from the two mailings, that there was continued activity. If you were to check now, you will see that from the time that I made known the activity to Michael Detwiler and he confronted James with it, the activity has stopped on these forums. It may still be active on private lists, or lists of another name.
Bruce did not answer me, but instead sent out an e-mail to his "Beloved Brethren," on 12/12.
Bruce's Beloved Brethren e-mail
As a result of the slander and lies spoken in this e-mail, against Uri Marcus and myself, I once again wrote to Bruce, giving him a chance to make this situation right.
12/16 My second email to Bruce Gorovenko
He, once again, has chosen not to reply. So after going
to him personally, for his offense against me, I am taking it to the two or
three witnesses, so to speak.
To address some of the comments that Bruce made in his e-mail-
Now what I have done, in investigating James Trimm, I did
to defend a woman who said that James
Trimm was Rabbi Yosef and taught on the BoM. James denied it and several of the forum members called
her a liar and a slanderer for her statement. Despite what all she may be or do, she did not lie about
James Trimm and the BoM. I found the truth, within one hour of my investigating the net. It had been
months that she had begged the SANJ Beit Din to investigate the matter. My revealing of the truth,
upheld Thorah. I sent all the evidence to the Beit Din, who did not even answer once. At which point,
James starts lying and slandering me to cover his butt, like that would help. So I sent another e-mail to
the Beit Din, pointing the new slander out. Once again, no answer. In my final letter to them, I warned
them that if they continued to turn a blind eye to what was going on, that I would take these matters to
the Beyth YHWH for justice. So I set up a website and compiled a list of over 350 e-mail addresses,
mostly assembly leaders and sent off my plea to the assembly. With each new lie of James', I would find
more lies and deceptions and bring them to light. James refused to repent, the Beit Din refused to deal
with it and more kept coming to light. I now have about 500 addresses and only 49 of the original 350
asked to be removed. Two of which were for Bruce Gorovenko.
Uri Marcus was not involved in any of what I did. I did
not even know him then. I was referred to Uri, by
someone in the northeast, well after all this was done. I sent him a link to my site and he read through it.
He played no part or "co-laboring", in anything that I have done. All he has done is to encourage me for
being courageous enough to speak the truth and expose the lies, deceptions and frauds that were going
on with James and the Beit Din.
I did not slander James in anything I wrote or spoke. I
have documents, posts, and e-mails for proof.
There was no gossip or Lashon HaRa involved at all, just truth. I have spoken with Rabbi's from the Rabbinical Council and the Rabbinical Assembly in NY, as well as numerous Messianic leaders, all of which state that what I have done is not slander or Lashon HaRa. For Uri to inform Bruce, who is listed as a
SANJ affiliate, of James dealings, was in the hope of Bruce not being deceived or involved with an
organization that behaved so unrighteously. That is not slander, gossip or Lashon HaRa, that is living
Thorah. If I see a pit and I do not warn a man, then I am guilty of not preventing an accident or death. If I
see a man sin and I do not warn him to stop, then I am guilty of that man's blood, should he die in his sin.
This is all Thorah, as is my warning others and Uri warning Bruce.
For Bruce to give an incorrect or lying account of my communication
with him to Uri and not answer me,
when I wrote him to get his side of the story, and then to send out an e-mail to at least y'all, that was
everything that Bruce was accusing Uri and I of - slander. But Bruce has a vested interest in these politics.
Bruce is not only an affiliate of SANJ, which has not been righteous in these matters, but he is also
registered as a yeshiva student of James Trimm's Beit Netzarim Yeshiva, which means that if he did not
already have a false doctorate or rabbinate awarded to him, that he might have gotten one. Except, I found
out about it and the State of Texas, Department of Higher Education made James stop offering degrees of
any kind and has required that he refund, not offer, all tuition and fees to all of his past and present students. And James cannot transfer any "credits" to any other yeshiva or school, since he could not legally issue them in the first place and any school that accepts them is doing so illegally and could jeopardize their standing.
What amazes me in all this, is all the unrighteousness and
politics involved. Bruce sends an e-mail to
Michael Detwiler, informing him of what Uri is warning Bruce, concerning the situation with FFOZ and
the Berkowitz', as well as the situation of Michael and Boaz Detwilers conversion and the situation of James Trimm and SANJ. Only Bruce uses terminology of "attacks" and "gossip" , "malicious campaign" and "Lashon HaRa". Bruce states that these are attacks based on third party gossip. Yet Bruce has no idea what he is talking about here and it certainly is not gossip. And he did not check with all the parties involved for clarification, but wrote an email to Michael Detwiler and encourages him to forward the e-mail to whoever.
Did Bruce call the Berkowitz' and check with them about the situation? NO. I have spoken directly with the Berkowitz'. Michael Detwiler offered to explain their side of the situation, but has not yet done so. That is first party information, not third, on Uri's behalf, as well as mine.
Also, the situation of the conversions of Michael and Joyce
Detwiler, their sons, Boaz and his wife, and
Ralph Messer and his wife, was told to me, directly by the man that gave them their conversions, Nathan
Lerer. I also spoke with Michael and he admitted that they received the conversion, but they did not know at the time, that Nathan Lerer was not a legitimate rabbi. Many in the Orthodox Jewish community did not know until late 1990 and the conversions were done in Aug. 1990. None that were converted had to deny Jesus/Yeshua/Yehoshua/Yahushua/etc., directly, since Lerer never asked. I went to the sources and checked things out. Again, first party. As to the fact that the rabbi is not a rabbi, that is also not gossip, but was even investigated and exposed by the InterMountain Jewish News, in CO and the Jews for Judaism organization, primarily, their director Mark Powers, who sent me the documentation. I have called and confirmed the sources, except for that of Danny Miller's daughter and son-in-law, who also received conversions.
So Bruces' contacting Michael and stating that Uri was gossiping
and slandering is incorrect. What is
ironic, is that James publically wrote against FFOZ, the Berkowitz' and those that minister to the Christian community and he is not called a slanderer, gossiper and liar, and yet Uri mentions things that are unrighteous and are currently going on and he is being called a slanderer and a gossip.
On Sept. 3rd, James posts post nos. 41141 and 41142
Post 41141 James Trimm
Post 41142 James Trimm
I had been watching the forum since I had registered on
it in July. James is never vague or ambiguous,
unless he is setting something up. I have the book mentioned and I recognized the quote right away, which also told me who the messianic ministry was, that he was setting up. What I didnt know was why he was writing about this now, since the book had been out for a time and James did not just get the book. I realized why, when I connected the previous post 41141, just before it.
In that post, James says, "Another Messianic leader recently
criticized SANJ saying:" He then goes on to
quote part of what they have written or spoken. Then he makes a rebuttal. When you see the pattern that
James has over the years, at the forums, you see that the two are connected. My speculation was correct,
when I saw Michael Detwiler get on the forum, which he had not been on in awhile and post in rebuttal to
The book is Take Hold by Ariel and D'vorah Berkowitz. The
quote is from Questions Concerning
Miscellaneous Subjects, page 241. That told me that FFOZ was the Messianic ministry that spoke against
SANJ. This was further confirmed by the ensuing postal battle between James and Michael. Did James,
after all this time that the book has been out, contact Boaz about what was written privately? Why did he
begin a retalitory strike against this organization for criticizing SANJ? And why did he not list them by name or cite the book?
The people at the forum are so divided on the issue of being
in a church at all, ministering to Christians, being elitists and separatists,
etc. that it becomes pretty heated. On Sept. 4th, post 41233, Michael Detwiler
states, "GOSH !! Of course we would NOT worship AS THEY WORSHIP nor would we WORSHIP
OTHER GODS. This is not the point at all. James started this by saying that it is wrong to worship on
SUNDAY. I replied by saying that it wouldnt be, as long as we kept our Shabbat (which, by the way,
James does NOT do, according to TORAH)." James criticized those that even used a church building for meetings or ministering to Christians in thier churches, as being yoked with torahless ones, anomians, involved with Babylon and idolatry, meeting in phallic topped steeple houses.
The irony is that James' Beit Netzarim Congregation originally met in the Hurst Assembly of God, before it went to a separate location and then folded.
If you think that my speculation of the first post
and the second post being connected is incorrect, James
says so himself, in post 41328, on Sept. 5th, just 3 days and 187 posts later.
Post 41328 James Trimm
Bruce and Michael have both commented that Uri spoke against
his own brother, Avi. Yet Michael
Detwiler spoke against things that he felt Avi did that were unrighteous and should not be in a position of leadership for a season, as a result, and even included some of these points on his letter of resignation, from the SANJ Beit Din, on 5/22/2000. He recently mentioned the same in a phone call and an e-mail to me, as well as mentioning other men and what he perceived to be their unrighteousness.
So how is it, that when Uri points out unrighteousness he is labeled a slanderer and speaking lashon hara, and when I have exposed the lies and deceptions with the truth, I am also labeled a slanderer, yet others of you do the same and it is not? Where are the equal weights and measures? Where is the righteousness in judgement? Looks like politics and hypocrisy to me?
A man just said to me that Uri speaks against everyone and
one day he will turn on me and speak against
me too. Well, from what I have known of Uri, he has spoken against unrighteousness and does not even
show favoritism to his own brother, when he felt his brother was wrong. I would hope that if I were doing the things that some of these men have done, that Uri would be friend enough to be blunt and honest with me and point out the unrighteousness and if I did not repent, to warn others. Some of you may call that slander and lashon hara, but I call it observing the Thorah of YHWH and so does the Rabbinical Assembly, the Rabbinical Council, the Chofetz Chaim and many Messianic assembly leaders and Jewish Believers.
Concerning all the evidence, in a number of these matters, Bruce can behave as a child and think that if he does not see it, that it isnt there, but that will not make the truth go away. The truth speaks for itself and many are believing it. The fact that he turns a blind eye to it and calls it slander, speaks volumes about his ability to discern truth and his reaction to Uri's conversations and my inquiries of his comments, speaks to his credibility. And of course, there is the matter of the differing weights and measures here. Bruce has done all that he accused Uri and I of doing, though I dont know if he practices witchcraft or not, but then I am not sure that the man knows what that exactly is, according to Tanak, based on the context he used it in.
If this goes to any hearing, and Bruce provides any testimony
as he has done in these e-mails, he would be guilty of being a false witness.
I can provide evidence, to prove the truth in many of these matters. That is
if the truth and righteousness matters to anyone anymore. Only 9 more months
to Yom HaKippuriym. Shalom, Kathryn