Subject: lies?
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:57:54 -0600
From: purnhrt <purnhrt@flash.net>
To: baruch@csilver.com
 

Shalom b'YHWH
Bruce Gorovenko, I wrote to you, which I felt was the scriptural and
truthful thing to do,  asking, "So I am curious as to what exactly you
are telling people that we have communicated about and in what capacity
you were trying to help." Instead of responding, to clarify what exactly
you spoke to Uri Marcus, you lie about me and send it out to who knows
all. Is that what James Trimm's yeshiva teaches you? By the way, have
you gotten your refund from James which the state has required him to
send you?

You then wrote:
">Slander consists of lies or false reports circulated maliciously,
>usually behind the back of the person concerned, with the purpose of
>injuring character or reputation. Aspersion is accomplished by
>insinuating, casting reflections, making damaging implications,
>discrediting, especially in a slighting or belittling way.
>Scandalizing consists of gossip, perhaps true, perhaps false,
>repeated either from malice or thoughtlessness, and spread abroad.
>Gossip is idle talk about other people's affairs. A gossiper is one
>who habitually talks of other people and their affairs.
>
>Lashon Hara is any derogatory or damaging (physically, financially,
>socially, or stress-inducing) communication. Rechilut is any
>communication that generates animosity between people.
>
>Torah is explicit: "Do not go about as a talebearer among your
>people." Vayikra 19:16"

So why with all this supposed concern about gossip, false reports,
Lashon HaRa, talebearing, etc., did you proceed to lie concerning me?

"How is it Uri that I get 7 emails from Kathryn today (the one that
>you are "co-labouring" with to slander James Trimm) shortly after I
>got off the telephone from you? The last time I communicated with
>Kathryn was an email to ask her to kindly remove my email address
>from her list, that was sent on August 7, 2000 (five months ago).
>Now she emails me with the question, "So I am curious as to what
>exactly you are telling people that we have communicated about?"
>Uri, for the love of Y'shua humble yourself, stop the gossip,
>slander, lashon hara, rechilut, scandalizing and aspersion and come
>out from among the gossipers. How about it?
>ps Uri, please tell Kathryn that nothing has changed since the last
>email she sent me requesting that I get involve in the
>mudslinging... the answer is NO."

I am not, nor have I ever been "co-laboring" with Uri Marcus, on any
front. Uri did not do any of the Rabbi Yosef  and BoM research, Uri did
not research James false doctorate and Don Hargis for giving it, Uri did
not research James family tree and expose that James was not in the
least Jewish as he lied, Uri did not expose the illegalBeit Netzarim
Yeshiva, or any of the others, Uri did not post to the Nazarene forum
about any of this, Uri did not address James Beit Din with the evidence
or collect over 500 e-mail addresses to make a plea to, Uri did not
create this website or have an update list. Those are all things I did
before I ever met Uri Marcus. So where do you get off trying to make him
look bad with the way you are wording it, for something that I did?

Now, if I am seeking truth, concerning James Trimm and SANJ, so that
other people are protected from their slander, lies, deception, fraud
and theft and someone else agrees that it is such, that is not
co-laboring, except what anyone in the Beyth YHWH, should be doing to
stand up for the Thorah YHWH and His righteousness. If you consider that
co-laboring, then let me tell you, there are hundreds of co-laborers,
including a good number of assembly leaders, that are now involved and
it grows with each update.

Also, it is not slander, to state the truth, which, if you view it as
slander, you need to read the Tanak and see what it defines as slander,
not what James and SANJ make halakah concerning slander to excuse their
real slander. Or perhaps you should call the Rabbinical Assembly and the
Rabbinical Council in NY. I can give you their numbers and you can ask
them yourself. Or perhaps you would like to consult a book called
Chofetz Chaim, by Rabbi Yisroel Meir, considered THE book on Lashon
HaRa.

Would you care to expound to your "beloved brethren" list what 6 of
those 7 emails were about? You make it sound like I am harassing you
with a ton of e-mails. 6 forwards, showing the continued activity of
James Trimm, concerning the BOM, is hardly inundating you with e-mails.
Dont worry, I will get this matter clarified.

Then you tell Uri, "ps Uri, please tell Kathryn that nothing has changed
since the last email she sent me requesting that I get involve in the
mudslinging... the answer is NO."

Excuse me, Mr. Gorovenko, but can you produce the last email and show me
where I asked for your help? No you cant, but I can produce the first
one that you sent to me, offering it. I did not ask you for help in this
last email, I asked for your story on what you communicated to Uri
Marcus and then, since Uri told me that you did not believe that James
was involved with the BoM, I sent you the forwards that prove James
continued involvement with those BoM forums that he created as Rabbi
Yosef.

You have lied by statement and by ommission of facts, you have
misrepresented, and you have slandered. Now, I figure that your "Beloved
Brethren" list, must include Michael Detwiler, as the original
recipient, those you mentioned, Avi ben Mordecai, James Trimm, Boaz
Detwiler, Joseph Shulman, Yeshai Rienhardt, possibly the other Beit Din
members, since you are an affiliate, at least. The majority of the names
are already on my updates lists. The other two should be no problem to
get, and will be included to the other 500, if I dont already have them.

What is it about you men, that you think you can lie and slander people
and not be held accountable for you actions and not repent of what you
do? What kind of Thorah do you read that allows for this kind of
unrighteousness? It is certainly not the Thorah of YHWH.

You not only owe an apology to me for what you wrote, but you need to
apologize to Uri Marcus and correct your "mis-information" to those you
sent it to.

Shalom, Kathryn