I saw these questions arise
at a forum. I could not, in good conscience, say nothing.
The following is the post I made, minus the original posters name. His
questions are in bold.
"Should the laws of man outlaw the laws of
Yahweh? Should a rightious man in a rightious house have the right/responsibility to 'correct'
his wife, even if he uses violence? According to Scripture, is the state
responsible for the relationships between a man and his wife? Is there any Scriptual justification for state interference in the
relationship of a man and his wife? In Scripture, is it justified for a man to
beat his wife? In Scripture, can a man kill his child? If so,
for what reasons? Please answer from Scripture - No toutchy, touchy feel good 60's BS....”
First, I would like to ask
some questions? You ask if the laws of men should outweigh the laws of YHWH, in
direct relationship to a post titled, "Domestic violence/just
wondering." You follow your question with another question, which reads
more like a statement by your choice of words; asking if a righteous man in a
righteous house, having the right/responsibility to "correct" his wife, even if
he uses violence. So my questions are, do you view
violence toward your wife, as a means of "correction"? Do you somehow
think that it is a law of YHWH to beat a wife? Are you asking for some kind of
justification to beat a wife? Or kill a child? I am appalled by these questions
and the way in which they are worded.
Malakiy 2:13-17, " 'And this a second thing you do,
covering with tears the altar of YHWH, with weeping and groaning, yet He does
not face toward the food offering, or receives it with delight from your hand.
Yet you say, "Why?" Because YHWH has been a witness
between you and the ishshah of your youth, whom you
have broken faith against her, and she, your companion, and your ishshah of your covenant. Did He not make echad
[united/one]? And the remnant of the Ruach is in him.
And what of the one? He is seeking a seed of elohiym.
So guard your ruach, and with the ishshah
of your youth do not break faith.
"For I hate divorce," says YHWH, elohey
of Yisrael, "and to cover with violence, as his
garment," says YHWH Tsebaoth. So guard your ruach, and do not deal treacherously. You have wearied YHWH
with your words, yet you say, "In what have we wearied Him?" In your saying, "Every evil-doer is good in the
eyes of YHWH. And in them He delights," and, "Where is the elohey of justice?' "
Amazing that YHWH would
speak of a man covering himself with violence as he does a garment, in the same
passage as hating divorce and dealing treacherously with the wife of your
marriage covenant, and then say to guard yourself in your ruach.
That word, violence, is chamas; treat violently, wrong, injure, cruelty, damage,
oppress, mistreat.
YirmeYahu 22:3, "So says YHWH, 'Do justice and
righteousness, and deliver the one robbed from the oppressor's hand. And do not
oppress the ger, the widow or the orphan and do no
violence, nor shed innocent blood in this place.' " If
YHWH gives this command concerning those that might be considered outcasts and
more susceptible to violence, how much more understood is it, to do no violence
to your own ishshah that you are to be echad with?
Thehillah [Psalm] 11:5, "YHWH tries the righteous, but
His nefesh hates the wicked, and him who loves
violence."
Thehillah 73:6, of those that are wicked and proud, "So
pride is their necklace; violence covers like a garment belonging to
them."
Another passage, like Malakiy 2, that speaks of what comes between you and YHWH, is YeshaYahu [Isaiah] 59:6,
"Their webs will not become clothing, nor will they cover themselves with
their works. Their works are works of evil, and the act of violence is in their
hands."
These violent men, instead
of clothing themselves with the garment of righteousness, have chosen violence.
What makes you think that
violence is a means of correcting your wife? Mishley
[Proverbs] 12:10, "The righteous knows the nefesh
of his beast, but the mercies of the wicked are cruel." How much more should the truly righteous know
his ishshah? How many wives could say that the
mercies of their husbands were cruel?
Also, show me where in the Tanak, that YHWH says to use a rod to "correct" an ishshah, or the palm of you hand or your fist or some other
instrument? No where does YHWH teach or direct anything like that in the Scriptures.
Shemoth [Exodus] 21: verses 18-27 speak of injuries to one
another, men
against men, owners against slaves, etc. The injuries are to be paid for, and a
slave could be set free if an eye or a tooth was lost. Can a wife, who is of
much greater value and position than a slave, one who an iysh
is supposed to be echad with, be set free from a
marriage if damage is done to her from her husband? The damage should not even
be done to a wife.
In YeshaYahu
[Isaiah] 58, YHWH speaks of what a true
fast is, pointing out that they could
not fast as they were doing and expect their voice to be heard. One of the
things mentioned, that caused them not to be heard, was the striking of each
other with their fists of wickedness. Did YHWH say, "except
those of you that beat your wives, that is okay, in fact it is a right and a
responsibility to correct your wives with violence. Your fast I will
acknowledge." ?
I think not.
In I Shmuel
25, you read of a man named Nabal, who the Tanak lists, in verse 3, as being cruel and evil in his
dealings. Verse 15 says that Nabal screamed at the
messengers sent by Dawiyd, to request supplies. Verse
17 says that he is a son of worthlessness and no one can talk to him. Abiygayil had to go against her husbands wishes, in order
to protect them from slaughter and did not even tell him. She says in verse 25,
that he is rightly named and foolishness is with him. When Abiygayil
gets back, Nabal is feasting and drunk, so she did
not tell him until morning, that she had taken supplies to Dawiyd
and his men. YHWH strikes Nabal with a heart attack
and he dies 10 days later. Dawiyd said that YHWH had
caused the evil doing of Nabal to come back on his head.
Nowhere does it say that Nabal beat his wife, but given the description of his
character, his cruelty, his temper, his drunkenness, his reputation by his
servants and his wife, it is not only possible, it is probable that she was the
recipient of his cruelty as well. And YHWH struck Nabal
and delivered Abiygayil from such a husband.
"According to Scripture, is the state
responsible for the relationships between a man and his wife? Is there any Scriptual justification for state interference in the relationship
of a man and his wife?"
According to the Scriptures,
those in authority, which in the case of
" And YHWH spoke to Mosheh, saying,
'speak to the sons of Yisrael, and you will say to them, when an ishshah of any man turns aside, and unfaithfully, against him is unfaithful
and a man lies with her, seed, and it
has been hidden from the eyes of her iysh, and
concealed, and she has been defiled, and
there is no witness against her, and she has not been caught, and a ruach of
jealousy passes over him, and he has been jealous of his ishshah,
and she has been defiled; or, a ruach of jealousy
passes over him, and he has been jealous of his ishshah, and she has not been defiled, then the man will bring in his ishshah, to the kohen, and he will bring in her offering for her, a tenth
of the ephah of barley meal, he will not pour on it
oil, nor will he put on it frankincense, for it
is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, causing remembrance of iniquity. And the kohen will
bring her near, and will cause her to
stand before YHWH, and the kohen will take set apart water, in an earthen vessel, and
of the dust, which is on the floor of the mishkan,
the kohen will take, and put, into the water, and the kohen will
cause the woman to stand before YHWH, and will uncover the head of the woman,
and will give to her hands, the offering of the memorial, an offering
of jealousy, and in the hand of the kohen are
the bitter waters which cause the curse.
And the kohen will cause her to swear, and
will say to the woman, ‘if no man has lain with you, and if you have not turned
aside, uncleanness under your iysh, be free from
these bitter waters which cause the curse;
and you, if you have turned aside under your iysh,
and if you have been defiled, and any man has given his seed to you besides
your iysh,’
then the kohen will cause the woman to swear
with an oath of cursing, and the kohen will say to
the woman, ‘YHWH gives you for a cursing, and for a curse, in the midst of your
people, in YHWH's giving your thigh to fall, and your belly to
swell, and these waters which cause the
curse will go into your bowels, to cause
the belly to swell, and the thigh to fall.’ And the woman will say, ‘amen,
amen.’ And the kohen
will write these curses in a book, and will blot out with the bitter waters, and will cause the woman to drink the bitter
waters which cause the curse, and the waters which cause the curse will enter
into her for bitter things. And the kohen will take out of the hand of the ishshah,
the offering of jealousy, and will wave the offering before YHWH, and will
bring it near to the altar; and the kohen will take a handful of the offering, its memorial,
and will make incense on the altar, and afterwards cause the ishshah
to drink the water: he will cause her
to drink the water, and it will come to pass, if she has been defiled, and did
commit a trespass against her iysh, that the waters
which cause the curse will go into her for bitter things, and her belly will
swell, and her thigh will fall, and the ishshah will become a cursing in the midst of her
people. And if the ishshah
has not been defiled, and is clean, then she will be acquitted, and will be
sown seed. This is the thorah of jealousies, when an ishshah
turns aside under her iysh, and has been defiled, or when a ruach of jealousy passes over an iysh, and he has been jealous of his ishshah, then he will cause the ishshah
to stand before YHWH, and the kohen will do to her
all this thorah,
and the iysh will be acquitted from iniquity,
and that ishshah will bear her iniquity. “
This is clearly a case, that
shows a man cannot take matters, between he and his
wife, into his own hands, and has to submit to the authorities in the matter.
He cannot beat her or kill her, just because he believes something and has no
witness, but a suspicion.
Also it was the responsibility
of the assembly to hear matters and to judge on them. Violence is not equated
with righteousness, why would the case of a husband beating a wife, be any
different than that of one man against another? YHWH does not lift up violent
men, regardless of who the violence is directed to. It is a sad testimony of
those that call themselves believers to have the state have to intervene, for
the protection of a wife, because of the husbands "correcting". Now you can say that the state would have no
right to do so. You could also state that about your own personal and business
disagreements, yet the Tanak and the Testimony, both
show the intervention of the secular governments in those cases as well. The
Letters even say that situations should be dealt with between believers and if
it gets to the point that it goes secular, that it is a bad reflection on the
body that they could not handle their own situations.
Now, since you did not
specify Tanak only, as the Scriptures, or if you view
the Testimony, Letters and Revelations as Scripture as well, I will add those
passages, from the Peshitta.
Ephesians 5:25-33,
"Husbands, love your wives, even as HaMashiyach loved his assembly,
and delivered his nefesh up for her. That He might
set apart her, and cleanse her, by the washing of the waters, and in the word.
And might make her an assembly for himself, being honored, in which is no
stain, and no wrinkle, and nothing like them; but that it might be set apart and
without blemish. It becomes men to love their wives, as their own bodies. For
he that loves his ishshah loves himself. For no one
ever hated his own body; but nourishes it, and provides for it, even as HaMashiyach the assembly. For we are
members of His body and of His flesh, and of His bones. For this reason,
an iysh should leave his father and his mother, and
cling to his ishshah; and the two should be one [echad-united] flesh. This is a great mystery; but I am
speaking of HaMashiyach, and of His assembly.
Nevertheless, let each of you so love his ishshah,
even as himself, and let the ishshah
reverence her iysh."
Now this quite clearly
speaks of a relationship between an iysh and an ishshah. It does not say for the iysh
to violently correct his ishshah, but it gives the example of Yahusha` caring for the assembly in love, and the example of treating your own body. Do you beat yourself when
you correct yourself? Do you commit violence against yourself?
I Timothy 3 - these are the
standards of an zaqen [elder], "And a zaqen should be such, that no blame can be found in him;
and he should be the baal [master] of one ishshah, with a prudent mind, and modest and self
controlled , and loving to strangers, and able to teach; and not a drunkard of
wine, and not his hand quick to strike;
but he should be humble, and not an uproarous iysh, nor a lover of silver; and one that rules well his
own house, and holds his children in obedience with all purity. For if he knows
not how to rule his own house well, how can he rule the assembly of elohiym? Neither let him be young in learning; otherwise he be
uplifted, and fall into the judgement of HaSatan. And there ought to be good testimony of him from
those without; otherwise he will fall into reproach and the snare of HaSatan."
Well that seems to
disqualify Nabal.
A similar list is in Titus
1:6-9, again mentioning that a zaqen should not be
quick to strike, which does not mean to do it slowly.
Throughout the Letters, there
are lists of those who cannot enter the